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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 9:12 am 
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http://www.4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.ph ... r+sway+bar

alot of this was covered a LOOOONG time ago too.

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If speed kills, then i shoulda been dead awhile ago. There is no such thing as "Too Much Power". There is no excuse for a lost race. Do you view the rev limiter as a fun limiter?or as a shift point? And we all know, more boost=more fun.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:33 am 
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CSM Junkie

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1969? :lol:

so,, do fwd 1g's come with a bar or no?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:54 am 
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Some call me a god

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alot of yall youngun's werent here back in 2001-2002 when there was a couple months of boogered up dates, alot of em resorted to default 1969 for whatever reason.

_________________
If speed kills, then i shoulda been dead awhile ago. There is no such thing as "Too Much Power". There is no excuse for a lost race. Do you view the rev limiter as a fun limiter?or as a shift point? And we all know, more boost=more fun.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:52 pm 
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CSM Junkie

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Location: Cleveland
so, does a 1g fwd come with a sway bar or no?


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:54 pm 
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Location: Niagara Falls NY
No they dont come from the factory with rear bars, they must all be bought aftermarket


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2010 1:11 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Location: Thrapston, UK
Quote:
the rear axle bar for the most part stays parallel to the ground, the car body does not as it rolls with inertia through a turn. the sway bar will help resist that rolling force as the body twists it up on one side and down on the other. also, this will not increase the roughness of the ride dramatically as the entire axle moving up and down over say, a speedbump, will not engage the sway bar.

a stiffer rear sway bar will transfer more cornering load to the rear tires, as the bar will resist body roll more then the front bar, taking load off of the front tires and balancing the ff car more through a turn.

all i know of suspension tuning i learned from gran turismo :P people here can confirm my above post though.


ahhhh i see your point, its bolting to the control arm, wtf? that seems less effective.
^^^ This all applies to a setup where the sway bar itself is bolted to the chassis/unibody of the car, as well as to a control arm or other moving part of the suspension. Like on a 240SX, or a Miata, or pretty much any car with an independent rear suspension (I've spent a lot of time under those cars!). In these setups, the sway bar acts like a "spring" that fights against the two sides of the independent suspension working against each other. However, I've also installed a rear sway bar onto a B15 Sentra SE-R, which has a solid rear beam setup similar to the Mirage's. It pretty much had no perceivable effect on handling.
Quote:
It would still work. As the body leans away from the inside of a turn the inside control arm will lift to follow the chassis and the outside control arm will drop. The sway bar being bolted to the control arms will fight that lifting/dropping of the control arms. So it might not be as effective as the sway bar being bolted to the chassis but it will still have an anti-roll affect on the chassis.
^^^ This is the part that I'm not grasping. How, exactly, is it fighting the lifting/dropping of the rear bar? If the rear bar tends to flex under hard cornering, and the sway bar would stop that flexing, I can understand that. But is that the case? It seems to me that the biggest difference that adding a rear sway bar to the CSM's solid rear bar would be that doing so adds 10-15lbs of unsprung weight to the lower back of the car, which could alter the car's handling characteristics.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Location: Cleveland
Yea what's the difference here vs reinforcing the rear bar to make it less flexible?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:15 pm 
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torsional spring. it has to flex regardless. you reinforce it with weld plates expect something to go.

_________________
If speed kills, then i shoulda been dead awhile ago. There is no such thing as "Too Much Power". There is no excuse for a lost race. Do you view the rev limiter as a fun limiter?or as a shift point? And we all know, more boost=more fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:33 pm
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Location: Ulster County NY
I don't see the point in this. It's not a independent rear suspension..


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:21 pm 
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Some call me a god

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put a floor jack under one side of your axle. now lift. the axle WILL twist. the rear axle itsself IS a sway bar, if you look inside it has a sway bar inside of it already, you are adding more to it by adding another bar.

_________________
If speed kills, then i shoulda been dead awhile ago. There is no such thing as "Too Much Power". There is no excuse for a lost race. Do you view the rev limiter as a fun limiter?or as a shift point? And we all know, more boost=more fun.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:49 am 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:33 pm
Posts: 544
Location: Ulster County NY
Quote:
put a floor jack under one side of your axle. now lift. the axle WILL twist. the rear axle itsself IS a sway bar, if you look inside it has a sway bar inside of it already, you are adding more to it by adding another bar.

I know But that doesn't act as say the front sway bar would. It's going threw an already solid structure. It just seems like a reinforcement.

Springs would be you best bet. Or swapping to AWD for the independent end so theres 2 pluses to AWD and one won't have to worry about the rear inside tire lifting in a turn.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:35 am 
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Location: Tonawanda, NY
Quote:
put a floor jack under one side of your axle. now lift. the axle WILL twist. the rear axle itsself IS a sway bar, if you look inside it has a sway bar inside of it already, you are adding more to it by adding another bar.
He's right, and it looks like hes the first person that actually percieves how the sway bar works. The more tension you add to that original sway bar, the less body roll. The rear axle beam is far from solid; without that monocoque sway bar in there it would twist rather easily.
All the rear sway bar needs to do is try to keep the left and right trailing arms on the same plane as much as possible. By doing so, it keeps the car level.

I have installed these, and can confirm that the add on rear sway bar does make a noticeable difference.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:48 pm 
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CSM Junkie

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Location: Ulster County NY
Quote:
Quote:
put a floor jack under one side of your axle. now lift. the axle WILL twist. the rear axle itsself IS a sway bar, if you look inside it has a sway bar inside of it already, you are adding more to it by adding another bar.
He's right, and it looks like hes the first person that actually percieves how the sway bar works. The more tension you add to that original sway bar, the less body roll. The rear axle beam is far from solid; without that monocoque sway bar in there it would twist rather easily.
All the rear sway bar needs to do is try to keep the left and right trailing arms on the same plane as much as possible. By doing so, it keeps the car level.

I have installed these, and can confirm that the add on rear sway bar does make a noticeable difference.

Ok..


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Location: Cleveland
so what about reinforcing the rear bar? like welding on more material?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:29 am 
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Location: Tonawanda, NY
Quote:
so what about reinforcing the rear bar? like welding on more material?
Welding springs doesn't work very well. What's wrong with the DSM bar like the OP used?

I should probably mention, if it's not springy it's bendy. In which case your car would appear all jacked up on one side after a hard turn.


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