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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:50 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:41 am
Posts: 221
Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Just get a 4g63 front water pipe. It will probably end up being easier.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:19 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
Quote:
Just get a 4g63 front water pipe. It will probably end up being easier.
hmm..:

1. finding the water pipe (in trinidad....uh uh)
2. ondoing hoses from T/B and bolts etc (work..grrr)
3. disturb waterpump connect and O-ring area (risky)

sounds like a lil more work to me... :P it's interesting tho that there was a distinct difference in the water bung positioning. i guess i should have factored in the compressor housing sizing and its effect on the line-up. ah well, u live and u learn (and u post it up)!

but as i said, the re-positioning of the line to the rear of the turbo is not the problem as opposed to the bending on the hose. once i can get a longer centre hose or so, i think i'll be in business.

just came off the phone with the hose guys and i sent them an email with all the pics in this thread. they will have their tech guys look at it and determine if it looks 'workable'. based on their confirmation, if anything goes wrong, then i can have further grounds to have them repair it back to my original specs.

will update later. if i can get past this, we should start up by thursday night, tune by saturday.

pics to follow as well!

8)

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:50 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
UPDATE:

had a hunch and pulled off the water line, took a peek inside - DESTROYED...lots of internal damage and broken areas!

so note, teflon, steel braided hoses cant bend a lot!

line to be redone tomorrow, more pics to follow.

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 7:14 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 3:26 am
Posts: 79
Location: omaha NE
look for a pipe off of any dsm-gvr4 and either block off or weld up the coolant for the oil cooler.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 3:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:36 pm
Posts: 42
Location: malaysia
What happen if i stop the water passage from engine to turbo? will it affect anything?

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4G63T - 95 Mirage Cyborg R
MODS : 255lph, SARD AFPR, NGK (spark plugs and cable), SSteel IC, FMIC, big 16g, TypeS BOV, MBC, 2.5" Exh (No cat)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 7:05 am 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
Quote:
What happen if i stop the water passage from engine to turbo? will it affect anything?
i would just think the turbo will run a tad bit hotter. the water is simply for cooling. just use a non-turbo water pipe and a non-turbo thermstat housing. u can just run up some bolts on the centre cartridge area as well to ensure nothing gets in there.

just to update my experiences:

we re-did the coolant line AGAIN, this time making it 27 inches in overall length (including fittings). needless to say, its abit on the long side as i overestimated the pathway just in case, i just need to strap it away from hanging directly down as its now hangs lower than the sump pan :o

other than that, we're done. gonna post up the completed pics tonight...so just to recap:

1. the water line needs modification. i would suggest that a flexible hose be utilized to ensure you have enuff clearance.

2. if u are using an 11b or 13g turbo, the o2 housing flange angling is almost 90* off, so u need to redo the flange on ur d/pipe for proper fit.

3. dont bolt up ur oil return line before putting in ur exhaust manifold gasket...u'll have to do double work :-?

4. dont pull hard on the non-cut coolant line..especially when its bolted to the turbo. it will kink and u'll be real mad! :x

5. the job itself can finish in one day once u've got all the parts together. two tops. i took a week becuz i spent sunday - wednesday tryin to get a proper water line and do other minor things around the car after work each night.

6. as mentioned elsewhere, work with a friend. my back is killing me, ive got cut up finger, and generally sore all over :lol: the hours i worked on the car were a bit unreasonable (9pm-12am). but the constant bending, lifting the turbo and manifold on and off, etc...really takes a toll!

other than that, for a novice like me, this swap was a breeze. i highly suggest that if u want to do an upgrade, do it urself. it can really help you learn a bit about that aspect of ur setup and u can ensure everything goes up perfect (cuz u are working with ur own time lines).

starting up tonight (lettin turbo prime first of course), checking for leaks and doing over the d/pipe tomorrow followed by a road tune for fueling, timing maps etc.

pics to follow!

thanks for listening! and thanks for Chris (89mirageman) for all his assistance along the way!
8)

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:07 am 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7515
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:
thanks for Chris (89mirageman) for all his assistance along the way!
8)
Congrats on the install man, Great Job! You know I don't mind helping out if I can.

_________________
93 Mitsubishi Expo LRV 1.8/manual
95 Eagle Summit DL Coupe 1.5/manual
01 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Sedan 1.8/manual


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:24 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
STARTED HER UP!

after cranking her for a bit to get the oil moving, i turned and key and she came alive instantly...not even hesitation or stumbling. purrs like a kitten...no leaks (water, oil or otherwise)!

d/pipe isnt connected yet so its kinda noisy...but it was cool seeing little bursts of water flowing out and then system becoming super clean with respect to emissions!

pics and tune updates tomorrow!

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 5:37 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
Quote:
STARTED HER UP!

after cranking her for a bit to get the oil moving, i turned and key and she came alive instantly...not even hesitation or stumbling. purrs like a kitten...no leaks (water, oil or otherwise)!

d/pipe isnt connected yet so its kinda noisy...but it was cool seeing little bursts of water flowing out and then system becoming super clean with respect to emissions!

pics and tune updates tomorrow!
spoke too soon...! ran into a myriad of problems over the weekend. will try to be as concise as possible:

1. we carried the car to the muffler shop, did the downpipe re angling, all the while no leaks..things looked fine. hit the highway to visit my tuner and decided to do a lil WOT pulls...NO BOOST! i got a lil concerned and called the tuner...he suggested that wastegate had some issues. sure enuff when we got there, the rod is apparently too slack - i didnt kno the difference. so another thing to note on a evo 3 swap is the vary the bolt up of the wastegate (longer bolts/washers) in order to get things right.
we fired up, took for a spin and got a nice 9-10psi range. we put this to be a good base and dropped on a mbc in order to get 15. we now have 15 and the system boosts well (18 felt better tho!) :twisted: so this is solved..just for info purposes!

2. anyways...heading down the highway to get some 3rd gear wot pulls for tuning, we started to smell heavy oil burning scent and pulled over. sure enuff, there is oil dripping from under the turbo area. we carry it back to the yard to see the sump, the downpipe, the return line and generally anywhere under the turbo very very wet with oil. we tried to rev whilst car was jacked to see source, but we cant. so i have to clean off the bottom and carry it for a spin and determine the source.

3. a thing i'd like clarified is how do u get that damned oil return line on the turbo and sump properly? i tried it last week when puttin it up with the turbo end bolted in and the manifold just resting on the head (no boltd up). i struggled with it and managed to catch the bolts up but wasnt satisfied with my efforts. i have suspected this area as well so did it over today..it was even HARDER with the turbo bolted in place up on top. why i have focused here is that nowhere above that point is wet with oil..only from that point go down and its particulary wet around that sump join area. so i got a buddy over and we fought and fought with it and sort of got it back together again. but why in hell is it so hard? i had to push the flange end upward whilst he tried to quickly catch the bolts in. apparently these bolts runup at an angle to the flange? it was overall a pain and i hope we got it right this time...the wash up in #2 above will determine this for sure.

4. we are still smoking thru the exhaust. not as much as before, but its there. granted that i honestly did not clean up the hoses/intercooler from the last 2 smoking scenarios, i pulled them today to find - in horror - a puddle of oil here, puddle there and the hoses very wet inside. the puddles were predominantly at the bottom of the hot-side pipe i have that turns into the intercooler, the intercooler itself had lots of gunk inside and generally the whole system. even the compressor side of the turbo has oil (alot) resting in it.

sorry for being so lengthy but i am at my wits end. ive tried everything so far and nothing seems to be specifically solving my issues.

ive got 160 compression across the board (give or take 1-2psi)
no other smoking - off boost, start up, etc.
a relatively new turbo (less than 17k on it)
had 3 others do the same thing
a healthy performing engine otherwise

so kinda all out of pinpoint areas. we are re-cleaning the system a bit to ensure that this isnt old oil circulating thru the system. my tuner also like me didnt like the 110-115 WOT oil psi we were seeing. its just too high for our liking and the sad thing is, this was NEVER so high. usually sat at 90-100psi tops on hot day, 20w50 oil etc....couple months later, same oil, same temps, and we're geting almost 10-20psi more?

so...any advice...at all..will be appreciated..im just lookin at this car and hating it now! kinda makes me wanna pack it all up! but i guess im a sucker for punishment

:-?

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:04 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Rochester, NY
Brian,
Galantvr4.0rg Link
This tells about bearing wear but also the high oil pressure issue and solution with picture link.

Two quotes:
"We're asking more of it when you ditch the BS and in more extreme cases no squirters and heavier weight oil." (emphasis added)

"The basic concept is that your pressure relief valve is not working properly because it cannot pass enough oil to reduce the pressure to the level that it is supposed to maintain. So, by reducing the obstruction on the return side, the pressure relief valve can then relieve pressure at the level it is supposed to. That means that it will then relieve pressure normally again..."

Or the quick link to the PICTURE


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:04 am 
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CSM Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
Quote:
Brian,
Galantvr4.0rg Link
This tells about bearing wear but also the high oil pressure issue and solution with picture link.

Two quotes:
"We're asking more of it when you ditch the BS and in more extreme cases no squirters and heavier weight oil." (emphasis added)

"The basic concept is that your pressure relief valve is not working properly because it cannot pass enough oil to reduce the pressure to the level that it is supposed to maintain. So, by reducing the obstruction on the return side, the pressure relief valve can then relieve pressure at the level it is supposed to. That means that it will then relieve pressure normally again..."

Or the quick link to the PICTURE
thanks man. i've been thru similar posts on the notorious 'toonerz' site as well and porting seems the order of the day. but there are many times that these guys get no success and there are varying opinions on how much to port etc.

additionally, ive didnt remove b/shafts and ive got oil squirters..so i dont kno if i fall into this category.

ive done some more writing in this post - http://forum.4g61t.org/viewtopic.php?p=155738#155738

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:12 pm 
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Moderator

Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7515
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:

additionally, ive didnt remove b/shafts and ive got oil squirters..so i dont kno if i fall into this category.

ive done some more writing in this post - http://forum.4g61t.org/viewtopic.php?p=155738#155738
4G61's don't have balance shafts anyway, right?

_________________
93 Mitsubishi Expo LRV 1.8/manual
95 Eagle Summit DL Coupe 1.5/manual
01 Mitsubishi Mirage ES Sedan 1.8/manual


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:23 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:47 pm
Posts: 735
Location: Trinidad, Caribbean
Quote:
Quote:

additionally, ive didnt remove b/shafts and ive got oil squirters..so i dont kno if i fall into this category.

ive done some more writing in this post - http://forum.4g61t.org/viewtopic.php?p=155738#155738
4G61's don't have balance shafts anyway, right?
nope...none at all!

:-?

_________________
96 Lancer Stationwagon - 4G61T swap (rebuilt) (4g67 head, 4g63 intake mani), 390cc's, ported exhaust mani/with 2.5" custom d/pipe, TD04-13g (ported), Greddy Emanage (Gold Edition), VR4 18x12x3 IC with custom piping/hose, SR-20 (Silvia) Recirc BOV, Walbro 255lph pump, custom 2.25" press bent de-cat exhaust, ACT 2100 (4g67 g/box), front EVO II brake/booster upgrade


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 4:49 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:04 pm
Posts: 355
Location: Rochester, NY
You are running heavy oil compared to stock thou.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 9:40 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9539
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
bfrontin, what is your email? I have some files to send you in regards to oil and what to do and what not do, with regards to oil weights. I have since taken a step back about what oils I can, and can't use with regards to weights and how they act at certain temps. I'll post some links here for them too - people need to read this top to bottom but be warned that it is a 10 min read minimum - more like 30 mins to digest it all. It is good stuff with no endorsement as such and is the most scientific read in general terms that you will possibly ever read on the subject.

Everything you need to know about oil!
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/70618 ... post629341

Oil Labelling Explained?
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/57164 ... ained.html

Synthetic better why?
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/56497 ... swers.html

Take this info and run with it guys, I know I had to rethink the use of heavy weight oil in all but the most extreme of circumstances where temps cannot be regulated properly or where consistently high temps will be seen but not many people have race motors here and will never have to worry about that. Majority of us here have stock bearings and oil pumps and such so keep this in mind while reading.


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