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| Dsm independent or solid axle? http://www.4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=37651 |
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| Author: | pimpy rider [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Dsm independent or solid axle? |
I'm going to stuff a 4g63t and awd auto my 1980 colt. I was wondering if anybody on here knows the weight difference between solid axle and independent. I have a 2g auto donor car so its obviously a lot easier to use that than hunt around for a rear end with 3.3 rstio I would rather not use a ford 8.8 cause that's wayyy too heavy. This car will never see more than 350 hp. I read somewhere that the ford 8.8 is 175 lbs I bet the dsm rear is over 200. |
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| Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
That weight for the Ford 8.8 is likely just the live axle itself and not everything else that is necessary to hang it under the car, I've rebuilt a 8.8 and swung it under a fox body 'Stang, they are not light. |
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| Author: | Flying Eagle [ Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Do the DSM rear end, or an EVO setup if you have a wallet and big cahones. Leave the Solid axle setup for track only cars. |
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| Author: | twokss [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
The guy that bought my old colt is doin a solid rear swap. He says he wishes he went with the dsm rear. |
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| Author: | pimpy rider [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
I appreciate the opinions but the car I'm building is unorthodox to say the least. I'm going for light weight. I will weigh the entire subframe myself to decide to use it or not. I was thinking something like an old rwd Celica rear end. I am sure they are a really wimpy rear end. They do not come in a 3.3 however. My 2g auto rear will not have an LSD either. I don't really think I will need an LSD anyways. My goal is 11.5 with the least hp I can get away with. I can fab my own tubular subframe to save a pile of weight most likely. But I still think a 4 link solid axle with a wimpy light rear end would be lightest |
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| Author: | pimpy rider [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Only guys who might know would be a guy like catapult who swapped a solid axle and weighed before and after. I know the 8.8 is 175 lbs. awd dsms have always been 300 lbs heavier than fwd ones. T case is 20 lbs driveshaft about 50. I would guess the awd rear with subframe etc is at least 300 lbs |
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| Author: | Natedog [ Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
I don't see it being much lighter by the time you have to rework everything in the rear end to make it safe. Also your going to have to consider what sort of link set up you want to run. I owned the cataplt car for a bit... I really dont see it being lighter... |
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| Author: | twokss [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Are you dead set on awd? 11.50s is quite capable with fwd |
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| Author: | pimpy rider [ Sun Mar 31, 2013 9:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
I spent enough time deciding what platform to go with. I have a 92 engine and a f5m33. Even has an LSD in it. But don't you think it would be wayyyy cooler if it had the stock crappy steel wheels ( not slicks). I've been wanting to do auto for awhile I realize awd auto is going to be about 350 lbs heavier than 5 speed fwd. I'm still going to dig a bit to try to find the weight of a solid axle similar strength to stock dsm stuff. I think solid would be lighter. When i got this awd auto donor car that made the decision that much easier. |
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| Author: | CSM Shaun [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Quote: Only guys who might know would be a guy like catapult who swapped a solid axle and weighed before and after. I know the 8.8 is 175 lbs. awd dsms have always been 300 lbs heavier than fwd ones. T case is 20 lbs driveshaft about 50. I would guess the awd rear with subframe etc is at least 300 lbs
The floor pan and chassis bracing is entirely different between the AWD and FWD 1g DSMs. Not to mention the transmission, crossmembers and so forth. I can pick up an entire rear subframe with 4 bolt rear differential, axles, hubs, brakes and yada yada yada; it is NOT 300+ pounds. It takes me and my father (300+ lb tractor mechanic) to lift a Ford 8.8, and even at that it isn't fun. If you want to be unorthodox, then why do something that someone else has done? Ford live-axles under DSMs/CSMs is old news. Do something better, and LIGHTER. Use a 240sx rear subframe; for real cheap you can replace every control arm on the thing with tubular heim-jointed pieces. Or even better yet, fabricate your own rear subframe or differential mount and tubular control arms. If you really want light and AWD, neither the DSM nor Ford rear setups are what you are after. |
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| Author: | CSM Shaun [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Quote: Only guys who might know would be a guy like catapult who swapped a solid axle and weighed before and after. I know the 8.8 is 175 lbs. awd dsms have always been 300 lbs heavier than fwd ones. T case is 20 lbs driveshaft about 50. I would guess the awd rear with subframe etc is at least 300 lbs
Those are not the only differences. The floor pans and bracing of the chassis' are different between the AWD and FWD 1g DSMs; this is why you CANNOT AWD swap a FWD 1g DSM without lots of welding. Also, the front crossmembers are entirely different(AWD is far heavier) and the AWD transmission weighs a significant amount more than the FWD equivalent amongst other small differences. It takes me and my 300+ lb tractor mechanic father both to lift a Ford 8.8 off the ground and it isn't easy, even with him. Lifting a complete rear assembly is easily accomplished with any of my skinny-ass friends. I promise you that 175lb for a complete 8.8 Ford live axle is not correct. If you want to be unorthodox then why even think about using a Ford live axle? Too many DSMs and CSMs have already done it for it to really be "unorthodox". If you want light weight and different use a 240sx rear assembly. For cheap you can outfit the entire thing in tubular heim-jointed control arms. The same goes for Miata rear ends. Or go nuts with a welder and fabricate your own rear subframe and tubular control arms. If you want light weight you can do far better than a f&*%ing live axle or 1g rear end. |
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| Author: | slowdsm [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Quote: If you want to be unorthodox, then why do something that someone else has done? Ford live-axles under DSMs/CSMs is old news. Do something better, and LIGHTER. Use a 240sx rear subframe; for real cheap you can replace every control arm on the thing with tubular heim-jointed pieces. Or even better yet, fabricate your own rear subframe or differential mount and tubular control arms. If you really want light and AWD, neither the DSM nor Ford rear setups are what you are after. it all depends on power range you are shooting for. in my opinion from working on both types of rearends.. it would be easier to mount the ford..(also u dont have to worry about tearing a boot or breaking a cv axle) using there stock but upgraded upper and lower bars like the stang guys use.. plus at this point when u make the mounting bracket for the shock/strut.. u can make it taller to make the ride heigth as u want it. just my .02 Steve |
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| Author: | CSM Shaun [ Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
There are some bad-ass aluminum IRS Dana units in Jeeps and other Dodges too. But they are still god-damned heavy. |
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| Author: | cloead [ Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
Quote: The guy that bought my old colt is doin a solid rear swap. He says he wishes he went with the dsm rear.
my car would be done by now if i was using a dsm rear  at least once its done i shouldn't have to worry about breaking my rear end in any way shape or form |
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| Author: | pimpy rider [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dsm independent or solid axle? |
I was only using the ford 8.8 as a reference. I always planned on using something much wimpier. I know independent is always heavier than solid comparing apples to apples. I don't know what a dsm rear is but my guess. It's 6.5 inch maybe? I got the rear out of the 2g. It is definately over 200 lbs. I have to struggle to lift it an inch off the ground and I can lift a 4g63 long block and set it in the trunk of my car. And the 2g rear looks like a nightmare to install. I don't know if ill ever use it |
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