4g61t.org

what times and HP would you guess from a setup like this?

colt with 4g63t, T3/T4 setup with 3 inch turbo back exhaust ending with a QTP exhaust cutout at the end of the downpipe, 20psi, 75 shot from a viper VCN1000 with the multiple stages, Falken azenis sport tires... solid motormounts and stiffened rear suspension, stock ride hight, front lowered 1 inch. removed rear seats and sound deadening... big sidemount intercooler...

so what would you expect from that?
I'd guess 425 frontwheel HP 11.2 1/4 mile....

how about with 25 psi? maybe 450 hp 11.0 1/4? but then I'm in the forged internals zone.... nitrous would even be questionable on 20 PSI....

so what you think guys? I havent been in the DSM scene for a while.

Unless you just failed to mention some other components, I'd say you'd hit fuel cut pretty quickly @ 20 psi. The stock fuel system only delivers about 1.9 lpm @ 60 psi (fuel system pressure), and with 450 injectors, you're pretty close to maxing out the fuel system already with a stock setup.

Push a T3/T4 (what trim btw?) to 20 psi, and I can pretty much guarantee a lean condition without an upgraded MAS/MAF, and at MINIMUM a 190 lph pump (or at least a re-wired DSM stocker with upgraded -6 lines) with 550 cc injectors. An AFC would help considerably at this stage as well.

The T3/T4 50 trim series supports up to around 425 hp, but with only a sidemount intercooler (have fun mounting it), you'll probably run into heat-soak pretty quickly unless you get LOTS of air on it.

I'd also recommend a REALLY good clutch, at least a 2600 (or higher) pressure plate with either a kevlar or puck disk. It doesn't sound like you're thinking of a daily driver, so a 6 puck would be OK. A stock flywheel won't do the job either...you'd want a little less mass to spin and a LOT more strength, so a chromoly steel flywheel would be a good choice, but definitely invest in a scatter shield as you wouldn't want the flywheel exploding into the cabin at 7000 rpm.

I'd say with the NOS (I'd use upgraded internals even without a T3/T4 if you're putting the car on the bottle), the exhaust and the other mods mentioned in your post, you'd be pushing close to 400 crank HP (+/- 15 HP), which would equate to between 325 - 360 FWHP depending on drivetrain loss percentage. Get even 325 to the ground effectively in a 1900 lb car, and you're looking at low 11s or high 10s.

I'm sure there are many things I failed to mention, such as cams, crank, head studs, valves, lifters, ignition, etc, etc...but I think you get the picture.

Best of luck in this endeavor...I'd really like to see it work well!!

Aloha,

-Kev

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Cheap, Fast, Reliable......you can only pick <b>TWO</b>.

I was only mentioning the important stuff. of course I'm gonna have walbro 255 lph fuel pump, afpr, injectors, spark plugs, HKS 264 cams, clutch, and LSD.

oh, and it will be a daily driver at first... you see, Im planning on putting all this shit on, then daily driving it on low boost.

the t3/t4, if I am to do it, would be a 50trim I believe... I'm thinking of going with the dsmotorsports kit. and I dont know much about these cars so I just assumed that sidemount was standard. if thats not gonna work, FMIC is an.... acceptable alternative

I'm really just looking for a daily driven low 11s car for fairly cheap. adamrx7 said something about a ported 16g, think I could get into low 11s with one of dem dere tings?

also, back when I was into DSMs stock internals could hold 400 hp... but Im thinking maybe to go 1g rods 2g pistons... that combo can take more than 400 hp, right? if not, would it be the rods or pistons that go? Evo pistons still a good option?

now that I think about it, I think I would like it more with a 16g running ~11.7 on the bottle with stock internals.....

I'm also thinking about water injection to keep ping at bay, any opinions on that from you guys?

Boy this would be a fun daily driver..... 300 front wheel horsepower on demand with the flip of five switches (raise boost, change fuel map, nitrous, h2o, and exhaust cutout). I could still get pretty good fuel economy with those switches down, too I love the concept of flipping a couple switches and turning a car from a docile street machine to an 11 second beast.

so my planned setup would be:
4g63t with 1g rods and 2g or evo pistons
16g (ported?)
intake
downpipe
ported, evo, or maybe just an aftremarket O2 housing
exhaust manifold (maybe?)
QTP exhaust cutout
walbro 255lph fuel pump
AFPR
550cc injectors (bigger?)
clutch (havent decided which one yet)
LSD (same here)
platinum plugs
aquamist H2O injection system (maybe not?)
Falken Azenis tires on some nice light 16's (buddy club P1s?)
removed rear seat and sound deadening
solid or filled motor mounts
Shocks and springs (dont know which ones here either)

and as far as computers go
AEM plug and play ECU for DSM with a regular N2O system, controlled by the AEM, and a regular GM Boost control solenoid, controlled by the AEM
OR
apexi fuel computer
Venom VCN1000
TurboXS dual stage boost controller[/code]

I dont see the edit button so I will just say that I meant a big16g. But what is the deal with porting and clipping... I never bothered to find out about that shit, I was always set on getting T3/T4 when I was into DSMs....

Personally, I want a 17C, also known as a Frank Jr. It flows as much as a Big 16G (550 cfm @ 15 psi), but spools faster. It also retains the "stock" look utilizing a 7cm TD05 housing.

Ported and Clipped:

A ported turbo will flow better and (usually) spool faster than a not ported turbo. The clipping is designed to increase top end. A common clip job is 10 degrees.

I've heard varying opinions on what "stock" internals will take. 400 HP is a good baseline, assuming everything is working/tuned properly. Your propsed solution should produce in excess of that, the biggest variable being the NOS. If I were going that route, I would want a little lower compression pistons to help the engine take the extra pounding.

Forged or billet rods would definitely hold up better than the stock rods (one less thing to worry about). I believe 95 pistons are rated at 8.6:1 where the Evo pistons are listed at 8.8:1 compression.

-Kev

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Cheap, Fast, Reliable......you can only pick <b>TWO</b>.

well I really dont want to spend the money on forged rods if I dont have to.... are 1g rods the strongest cheap-o rods that can go in this engine, or are evo rods stronger?

and I realize its not a very low budget car, I just want to save every penny I can

use the nitrouse when tracing and you heed that extra kick when you want your turbo so spool faster....also!!!!!!!!

DONT RUN IT LEAN!!!!!!!! when using nitrous make sure you have it setup properly....
i.e: seperate injectorsor bigger injectors to inject more fuel when the nitrous is activated. some form of aftermarket ignition system that controls the nitrous. and if you want to run it safe......run the fuel a little rich.....coz id rather run it a lil rich an puff out a black puff cloud out my exhaust when i hit the nitrous then hear a puff and watch my head blow through my hood

_________________
I own a CSM.
I live my life 1 repair at a time.
Nothing matters...not my crew...my bills, nor my friends drama...
For those 10 months or less... I'm broke...

check out the venom VCN1000... it takes care of those fuel problems for me. when you flip the switch it automatically ups your fuel, I was pretty sure all nitrous systems did this....

Looking at the list you have compiled, "cheap-o" rods are NOT the way to go. The list looks awesome...basically a Turbo Colt's wet dream...somewhere in the neighborhood of $8K - $10K. Why cheap out on one of the most important links?

If you're doing this in stages, that's one thing. Go with the 1g rods with 2g pistons. They'll get you pretty far. If you're buying stuff and stowing it to build all at once, just get the forged rods and ceramic topped 2g pistons. You'll save yourself the time, effort and $$$ of pulling the pistons (or possibly the whole block).

-Kev

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Cheap, Fast, Reliable......you can only pick <b>TWO</b>.

ya know, in all that time I never stopped to consider money..... and now that I do I like this setup alot more:

1g dsm 4g63t with 2g pistons
$850 - Forced Performance Evo3 16G Package #3
$100 - intake
$200 - downpipe
$290 - Ported evo manifold
$150 - QTP exhaust cutout
$150 - walbro 255lph fuel pump
$350 - 550cc injectors
clutch (havent decided which one yet)
LSD (same here)
colder plugs (I want colder, right?)
Falken Azenis tires on some nice light 16's (buddy club P1s?)
solid or filled motor mounts
$350 - apexi fuel computer
$239 - TurboXS dual stage boost controller
free - removed rear seat and sound deadening

and if I can find a ghetto used nitrous system, awesome.

also, will I need an AFPR?

Throwing expensive parts at a car DOES NOT MAKE IT A FAST CAR!!! Do you even have a clue how much work it takes to make a car go 11s. And you think your gonna do it on street tires, good luck!

Goof.

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10.50@145

thank you for being such a big help. I'm just trying to map out a nice plan to follow while building my car. with the new setup idea I dont think I'll run 11s at all. 12s would be nice, and if I run 13s I will kill myself. when I put the 4g63t in it will be going in with the turbo, manifold, o2 housing, downpipe, boost controller, and fuel computer. that should be good for mid 12s on low boost in a 1900 pound car.

In all the time I've been around cars (not just DSMs), I've never heard of a "cheap" part. All parts are expensive!! Maybe not initially, but there's always installing, tweaking, tuning, etc...
It's good to know, however, that you can see past obstacles that may crop up. When planning, it's very important to have a contingency.

I think your "revised" plan has much better success potential. If you can't afford any MAJOR mistakes, it's always best to stick to proven paths. I do have to agree with 1lowcolt on one point however....street tires are pretty challenging. The challenge however, is 90% of the reason I (and probably most members here) do it. You may want to consider other brands of tire as well though. Kumho makes VERY GOOD street tires, Yokohama does too.

All of the really fast DSM'ers that I know use either NGK BPR-7ES plugs, or the NGK Iridiums. The R-7ES is one range colder than the stock plug, which means basically that it is able to remove more heat from the cylinders. The two types of plugs you should consider are "projected" and "non-projected". The BP-7ES is a "projected" tip plug (notice no "R") which will remove even more heat from the cylinder. Don't go TOO cold though, as if you do, they will never get to their "self-cleaning" mode and will foul. If you go too hot, they'll overheat. NGK recommends 1 step colder for every 75-100 HP added. A car running up to about 350 HP will be just fine with the BPR-6ES, but anything over that and you should move a step down. (BTW, the higher the number, the colder the plug: i.e. 7 is colder than 6)

If you're going to use NOS though....you've got to REALLY research what plug you're going to use as it will significantly change temps and combustion rates.

Your clutch and LSD choices will either significantly contribute to your quest for speed, or significantly hamper it. DSM trannies are not known for their resiliance in stock mode. If you want to make "Mad Power", you will DEFINITELY want to make upgrading your trans a high priority. Double synchros, steel shift forks, heavy duty shift rails, etc...

If you or somebody you know can rebuild trannies, the parts themselves are not that expensive (Mitsu Hawaii quoted me $74 some odd for a complete set of synchro rings). TRE is also a very reasonable shop if you want a "bullet-proof" trans. Get a scatter shield too....period.

An AFPR (Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator) will be absolutely necessary if you're going to properly tune this car. The AFPR will help you with your A/F mixtures to avoid ping. Get a good one. A wideband O2 sensor is a wise investment as well.

Aloha,

-Kev

_________________
Cheap, Fast, Reliable......you can only pick <b>TWO</b>.

-well the street tires are for normal use, when I'm going to the track I'll have track tires.

-thanks for the plug advice, I wont be using nitrous initially, so I know what to get now.

-I never knew that FWD dsms had tranny problems.... I thought the DSM tranny was an average quality one, but the AWD system turned it into the need for a high quality unit.

-How hard would it be to do that basic tranny work myself, or with the help of friends? I sortof know adamrx7, the admin here, you think he could lend a hand?

-Scattershield is a no-brainer

-I was a little confused about that AFPR thing thought because at www.dsmtuners.com they dont have it in their tuning guide, for the 400hp level.... wtf?

-and is a wideband O2 really necessary when Im not running a standalone? If I had the AEM unit I would be gung ho about it because that sucker can tune on the fly when its got a wideband in it.... but otherwise, why not just use the one they have at the dyno place when I go to get it tuned?