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Sonata 4g63 differences http://www.4g61t.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=38398 |
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Author: | gerg09 [ Wed Nov 27, 2013 9:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Sonata 4g63 differences |
I'm searching for some information about the 1.6l 4g63 that came in early sonatas. I believe that I have a motor out of one, and I notice some minor differences from a 6 bolt 4g63 out of a dsm. First off the main caps are individual, meaning it has five caps instead of 3. I can't seem to note any other differences this sonata block even has the 4g63 stamp on it. The head that was on the motor was stamped as a 1.6L. Visually I can't see any differences from the 2.0L head that I have. Obviously the combustion chamber would be a little smaller on the 1.6L head, but I'm wondering if there is any difference in valves or springs in these heads. Just looking for some information, maybe someone around here has experience with this certain model car. I believe they are referred to as J1, 1990-95 Sonatas. If anyone knew specific details on the differences in these motors it would put my mind at ease. I had the hyudai block and head cleaned up and machined, the machine shop ordered me eagle rods and wiseco pistons. They balanced the bottom end and didn't note of any problems, I'm guessing that the stroke and bore of these motors are the same. They also rebuilt the head by replacing the valve guides, and grinded the new valves and seats. I'm assuming that the parts would work in both different motors (sonata 4g63 vs dsm 4g63) or the machine shop would of noticed. |
Author: | Flying Eagle [ Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:30 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
J1 was the Elantra, maybe that transfers over also. Elantras ran in that model from 92-94.5, and then wiring and ECU's started to change. Would help to see some pics of the parts and car. That being said, you have a 1.6L head, which should have small intake ports like an EVO3/2G head setup. If the block is stamped 4g63, then it should be a 4g63, 2.0L bottom end. You have 2.0L of displacement and a lower CC head, than the stock DSM 2.0L came with. So, assuming this motor with pistons that are identical in shape to a stock 90-94, will have 7.8-8.0:1 compression ratio. Do you know what pistons came to you and what compression ratio they are supposed to yield in a stock 90 or 91+ DSM motor/head combo? I assume the engine block has no oil squirters installed at the base near where the pistons stop on lower travel? I am not sure if the main caps are going to make a huge difference, but there is a reason they mated the main caps into a series of 3 versus 5, and that is for strength like webbing in a block. The more points of supporting intersection, the stronger something, inherently, is supposed to be. Not sure what head those Sonata's were supposed to come with, but being that 1.6 and 1.8L engine options came with 1.6L and 1.8L head respectively, should stand to reason that the head in your motor is not the original part designed for that car, from the factory. I could be barking up the wrong tree, but you never know what Hyundai was doing with all those spare Mitsu parts they were using in their engine bays. Mitsu floated Hyundai for quite some time, with Mitsu motors in Hyundai cars/trucks. I say grab a Cyclone intake manifold, epoxy the runners in the Cyclone to mate to the 1.6L head and you will have an intake matched set that will flow much like a 2G head; with a little work. Lancerman did just that, and made some crazy good numbers. Tons of research and trial and error went into it too. Anyways, I'm chatting your ear off and trying my best not to make any mistakes while writing this all down. Keep us posted. |
Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:45 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
If you know for certain that the car is a 1.6l then it is definitely not a 4g63 or the Hyundai equivalent. The engine code tag is on the front of the engine underneath the #1 and #2 cylinder exhasut port. See here: Some cleaning may be necessary to see what is stamped there but you should see "G4CR" crudely stamped onto that tag. Here is a list of the corresponding engine codes between Hyundai and Mitsubishi:http://www.4gtuner.com/topic/21041-hyun ... uivalants/ I doubt that it has the lower 7.8:1 compression that is seen in the turbo application 4g63. As the car would not have come from the factory with a turbocharger it likely has a compression ratio of 9:1. Having said that there is the remote possibility, as Flying Eagle said, that you have a strange combination between the head and block and could actually have a compression ratio that is not expected. The only absolute way to know is to see that engine code on the block, determine whether your intake runners are the large or small ports then check the volume on your combustion chamber. Ultimately the entire exercise is moot if you are returning the engine to the car from which it came and was operating in. If you are looking to use the engine in a performance application and will be utilizing equipment that allows you change fuel and timing parameters in combination with an air/fuel ratio monitoring device then knowing the exact engine configuration will help with the initial setup of your "tune" but will not be of much use there after. |
Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 2:06 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Please note that the OP's follow-uo post with the pics was not showing when I typed my reply. That is definitely a 2.0l 4g63 with individual main caps. The head is still a crap shoot. |
Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:05 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
The last two pictures are not of true journals for the camshafts. The cams do not actually touch the parts of the heads that were pictured. Where did you get this engine from? Any history you were given with the engine? Honestly, from the differences in the block and how rough and unfinished that head looks I question the origin of this engine. Barring Japan the entire eastern coast of Asia is known for copying, usually poorly, or stealing technology and product design. |
Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:38 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
That is a good looking car. You definitely weren't stupid for buying it as no one would have been able to determine exactly what the engine was just by looking at it as installed in the car. The JDM engines have cleaner castings and mains that are connected at journals 1 and 2 then 4 and 5. I actually have a g4cp and it is functionally and aesthetically identical to every 4g63 that I have owned. As you have already sent the block off to a machinist and now have a 2.0l head I would say you are good to go. Is this engine to be installed back into the black 1g? |
Author: | CSM Shaun [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 7:24 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Another difference I just noticed on that engine block is the "4G63" stamping is wrong. |
Author: | gerg09 [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Compared to my other block and yeah it is stamped wrong. The letters on my known 6 bolt block are more uniform, they're placed farther to the left on the block. The letters are also more elongated, they have a special font to them. The letters on my block look more like someone had a hammer and stamp. |
Author: | Flying Eagle [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 10:11 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Well, here is what is known: Mitsu type block sporting 2.0L displacement given the crank being used (bore that is now 0.040" over?) Block uses NA style main caps No oil squirters Head stamped 1.6L (turbo or not, it's functionally the same) Forget what type of car this motor came from, it could have been assembled off the shelf by anyone at any time. Just know what you have and what you need to do to it. What mods to the balance shaft areas have been made or do you plan to run? Modded shaft? Spin the bearings 180? Looks like everything should be fine, it's just a matter of knowing what you have and how much power it can be expected to hold/crank will take. Lots of people don't use squirters, as their piston design and engine/knock management systems (READ Meth/Water/Alky) injection will help reduce temps and keep things sane for the aluminum. What are your power goals? I can't see this motor having a problem until into the higher power and REV ranges simultaneously. I could not tell you what threshold though... Just some benchtop racing on that last observation. |
Author: | gerg09 [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Quote: Well, here is what is known:
Yes everything that you said is correct for the block, .40" over however I will most likely use a 2.0 head in the end once fully assembled. I have new balance shaft bearings I plan to install 180 out, and a grooved oem stub shaft for the oil pump. Mitsu type block sporting 2.0L displacement given the crank being used (bore that is now 0.040" over?) Block uses NA style main caps No oil squirters Head stamped 1.6L (turbo or not, it's functionally the same) Forget what type of car this motor came from, it could have been assembled off the shelf by anyone at any time. Just know what you have and what you need to do to it. What mods to the balance shaft areas have been made or do you plan to run? Modded shaft? Spin the bearings 180? Looks like everything should be fine, it's just a matter of knowing what you have and how much power it can be expected to hold/crank will take. Lots of people don't use squirters, as their piston design and engine/knock management systems (READ Meth/Water/Alky) injection will help reduce temps and keep things sane for the aluminum. What are your power goals? I can't see this motor having a problem until into the higher power and REV ranges simultaneously. I could not tell you what threshold though... Just some benchtop racing on that last observation. I have considered an injection system to help counter any knock I will run into, however that is quite a ways down the road for my car currently. Another thing I need to take into account would be the availability of e85. Currently the area I live in doesn't have an e85 pump for about 50 miles or so, but I do plan to move within the next year or two. I eventually would like to be in the neighborhood of 500hp. I still have a lot to learn and purchase before I ever come close to my goal. I don't have plans to rev much higher then the stock limits, 8000-8500 however I am yet to purchase any springs or cams. Again thanks for sharing your thoughts and findings with me. |
Author: | 89Mirageman [ Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:16 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Sonata 4g63 differences |
Forgive me if I missed it but does that block have a 6 bolt crank? |
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