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Specializing in the 3g CSM
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:03 pm 
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What are the difference between the expo spindle over the stock CSM?

Do they share the same internals like bearing and seals etc...


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:22 am 
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The Expo knuckles have the most similar geometry to the 3g CSM so the tie rods line up, but they fit the larger DSM/Gvr4 brakes and wheel bearings. The only mod you need to fit them on a 3g are strut plates or cam bolts to adjust camber, and NATIONAL Part # 225082 inner wheel seals to fit the smaller CSM C/V joints.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:00 am 
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The stock csm knuckles use two tapered wheel bearings per side with separate races. The expo knuckles use one sealed bearing (same part # as 1g DSM's).

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:33 pm 
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cost wise and engineering wise is it much better in any way than the stock csm?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:23 am 
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Really the only reason for people doing this modification is to get away from the colt's captive rotor setup. the captive rotor setup is fine its just a pain to work on.

The other reason is to be able to utilize the dsm 1993+ two piston calipers.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:47 am 
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Larger bearings usually equal more weight capacity in the bearing pack itself, so a minor upgrade there. The rest of the car is not in any way upgraded to extra weight capacity however.
It may serve better for people that drive in a rather spirited fashion, with all the new found weight at the front end.

Bear in mind that all the larger components being bolted onto the front end, do increase weight at the wheels. It does not hold us back, but for anyone doing calculations, there is more more meat hanging off the knuckle at that point compared to stock components. Doesn't affect most cars in a considerable fashion, so this is why it is a decent alternative, especially should certain parts dry up or be hard to source locally.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:23 pm 
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given choices is the expo a better route than gallant? what year is the expo?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:16 pm 
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Quote:
given choices is the expo a better route than gallant? what year is the expo?
yes. the galant spindle doesnt match the csm tie rod it creates horrible bump steer and has no good way to be corrected. the galant spindle swap should be erased from the earth and never done or mentioned again.

92-96 fwd or awd doesnt matter.

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14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:11 pm 
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^^^ That.

Stock C52a and C53a turbo spindles are IDENTICAL.

Machine hubs down to clear inner rotor hat.
Install Galant VR4 front rotors (requires no stud redrill because they are 4x114.3 - DSM require redrill) 276mm, on the outboard side of the hub flange.
Have 4 spacers machined to space over the dual piston GVR or DSM front calipers (choose the threaded brake hose fitment, not banjo unless you will change your factory hoses, GVR4 front hoses work with C53a calipers for reference).
Get new brake pads and bearings and seals (inner/outer) while you are in there, because they will be coming apart and you DO want to start fresh.
Grab some synthetic high end bearing grease and use lots of it when packing your bearings. This could be the last time you repack bearings for your car.

No bump steer in the strictest sense of changing the geometry with spindles. You may need to space out the rims if you use close fitting spoke designs, and if you do, get longer studs to accommodate this change if there are too few threads still in contact with the lug nut.

Yes, you can bolt on the Expo and GVR4 spindles, but if you are taking things apart and replacing all the parts that keep you safe ... you may as well take the small extra step and replace all the front brake components and maintain as much of your original suspension geometry as you can.
Then if you want to play with camber and caster, you can get into suspension that allows for that (or bolts as a temporary measure in the case of camber) and bushings for caster, but you will wait for them to arrive from Australia and you have two options depending upon which control arms you are using (C52a caster bushings are much cheaper, C53a are quite expensive). Wait time for either caster bushing, should in theory be the same from SuperPro.

One upside for the Expo and DSM/GVR4 bearings, is that they are a sealed unit and press in/out when needing service. CSM hubs are tapered bearing, but if converted to a non-captive rotor, do not require servicing unless they degrade (noise before play) or you hit a massive pothole (noisey/play) and destroy the bearings do to brinelling or similar internal effects.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:25 pm 
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I did exactly what Tim suggested on my last 3g. Just took the front hubs off and machined them so that they slip inside of the GVR4 rotor. You can get all fancy and have a machine shop do it or do what I did. Trim off the larger sections with a portaband, cutoff wheel or whatever you have. Then using an aggressive flap disc I ground it perfectly round. The stock hubs actually have a line to go by making it next to impossible to mess up. Wish I had a pic for reference. Since my car only had 50k miles I didn't even bother replacing the bearings. Just started the hub and used the nut to pull it in. Doing it this way you don't have to bother with camber plates or slotting the hole on the strut. You also don't distort ball-joints or tie-rod ends since they don't need to come off. I rigged up a plate with two holes drilled to screw onto my large harbor freight slide hammer to yank the hubs off. I then used thick hardened washers to get the correct spacing centering the larger twin piston caliper bracket over the rotor.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:37 pm 
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Here is a finished hub C50/60 type hub - post cut/polish on edges, the primer and paint:

Image

Here is a new hub available off the net for visual reference - might not have the "bump" to make it obvious where you cut the metal up to:

Image

The hubs started out in life, like the one shown on the left of the two pictured on the paper that came with the front knuckle bearing seals (OEM!)

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:51 pm 
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Reference to the first thread that started the GVR4 rotor and twin piston upgrade path on stock C50/C60/C70/C80 front spindles.

Board index » Information Archives » General & Suspension (archive) - Brake upgrade guru's!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:39 am 
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would the '08 lancer spindle work? I believe it has the same 4x114.3 bolt diff is just it has abs sensor w/c I think can be removed


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:30 pm 
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Later front suspensions changed to wider knuckles at the lower clevis attachment point (the two big bolt holes at the base of the strut), and as such are not reverse compatible with stock C50/60 front struts but if you are using coilovers, the bases could be swapped for later model in theory.

As for spindle/knuckle geometry of the 2008 model, I could tell you nothing without first seeing it an others plotted beside one another. You need measurements of all the knuckles to know how they all affect change by going on a particle front end. Every car has differing tracks for front and rear, and even length of the wheel base and changing knuckles/spindles will change the entire design of how the car will handle with new parts. Toot, Ackerman angle, the list goes on.

Choose from what is known to work. That is the best advice unless and until someone provides you with science on something that works and has scientific fact to back up the claim.

I couldn't even tell you what axle might fit the front knuckles and if it was some sort of AWD axle (for the sale of argument), it would have a skinnier center section versus a FWD center section!

Anywho, not likely to find a perfect match out of a car with the drivetrain setup on opposite sides to our cars. Not saying it isn't possible, just not very likely.


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