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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:51 am 
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Alright guys I have read pages upon pages and only see limited rod length info. I bought a G4CS block from a guy. Has 150mm Manley I-beams 21mm wrist pin and Wiseco HD's P/N 6564M87. Just put $2k into rebuilding because it had various problems. Now after the rebuild and assembly the pistons are 6mm from the deck at TDC.

1. Does this mean I can only use 156mm rods with the g4cs engine?

2. Or does this mean I got shafted and they swapped an 88mm crank into it?

3. How can I measure the crank travel? Cycle the piston from TDC to BDC and measure with calipers?-

4. If I run the engine the way it is with that extra 6mm of gap will it be too low of compression to make power?

5. Is there a part number on the 100mm crank that I can identify it with?

I really appreciate any help because the engine has changed hands 3 times and no one wants to take responsibility.

*attached is the picture of the piston at TDC and the gap

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:27 am 
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Quote:
1. Does this mean I can only use 156mm rods with the g4cs engine?
No, this engine uses 150mm rods
Quote:
2. Or does this mean I got shafted and they swapped an 88mm crank into it?
Maybe
Quote:
3. How can I measure the crank travel? Cycle the piston from TDC to BDC and measure with calipers?
I'm not sure how to do that
Quote:
4. If I run the engine the way it is with that extra 6mm of gap will it be too low of compression to make power?
You would not want to run the engine with the pistons below deck. Yes, you will be WAY down on compression.
Quote:
5. Is there a part number on the 100mm crank that I can identify it with?
No part number that I'm aware of. There should be a way to compare the 2.4 crank with a 2.0 crank if you had them side by side. I would imagine they look noticeably different.

Are you sure this is really a G4CS block?

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91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:30 am 
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Yeah it's definitely the G4CS, it's stamped and meets the dimensions. I think someone tried to piece it together and it never ran right. I saw this engine running in videos in a fresh swap but it just idled, never driven.

Another question is it easier to have a 22mm pin machined into my Wiseco pistons or easier to have custom rods made to that spec?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:41 am 
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I imagine you could measure stroke by going from tdc to bdc and measuring since that would be the full crank throw
or stroke

It also seems that since a 100mm crank would have 12 mm more throw than an 88mm crank
but the 12mm would be divided between 6mm more piston travel in both directions
so the piston would go 6mm lower and 6mm higher than an 88mm crank

if thats all correct it would make sense that you have an 88mm crank in a 4g64 block.
im no expert just trying to think it out.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:49 am 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
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Quote:
I imagine you could measure stroke by going from tdc to bdc and measuring since that would be the full crank throw
or stroke

It also seems that since a 100mm crank would have 12 mm more throw than an 88mm crank
but the 12mm would be divided between 6mm more piston travel in both directions
so the piston would go 6mm lower and 6mm higher than an 88mm crank

if thats all correct it would make sense that you have an 88mm crank in a 4g64 block.
im no expert just trying to think it out.
Yup your correct. After I posted this last night I found a great couple articles with genuine help on tuners. It suck I need to unbolt the rotating assy but it needs to be done or it'll never be good

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:33 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:

No part number that I'm aware of. There should be a way to compare the 2.4 crank with a 2.0 crank if you had them side by side. I would imagine they look noticeably different.

I have a 88mm and 100mm crank side by side.. I dont see any diff except the 100mm crank has 64 stamped on the first counter weight on the pulley side.

Quote:
Another question is it easier to have a 22mm pin machined into my Wiseco pistons or easier to have custom rods made to that spec?
not exactly sure what you are asking here..but u cant machine the pin down...and you cant change the pin size in a piston.. both are pre set for max strength so any changing of them would cause issues... now you can do this... if you have 1G (21mm pin) sized rods....and you buy 2g (22mm sized) pistons... you can have a machine shop bore out the rod to a 22mm.. (which is what I plan to do when I get new pistons.. but im gonna send my rods back to manley and have them do it..instead of a loca shop.. its only like 15 bucks each for manley to do it.) and im also getting the thinker walled wrist pins.

so first off I would look on the crank and look for any numbers... (my 100mm had 64 on it).. the 88mm didnt have anything on it.. but it sounds like they put a 88mm in there...

Steve

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On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:50 pm 
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If it has an 88mm crank in there, then get yourself some 156mm rods, and you've got yourself a 2.1L de-stroked 2.4 rev monster!

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91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 3:30 pm 
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Plus you can probably buy those 156mm "long rods" with a 22mm wrist pin hole to take care of the questions you had in the above posts for wrist pin/piston machining. Two birds with one stone

2.1 destroker will be a different motor but still cool and rods are probably cheaper than a crank?

Here is a great link on all the engine combos people do
http://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/stroke ... cs.461017/

_________________
Black 1989 Colt GT with 4g61t. 200k miles and climbing. Rebuilt 2.0 in the works.....
14b, 450cc's, 3" exhaust, small fmic, all running on megasquirt version: DIYPNP
White 1992 colt-vista wagon 2.4, awd, auto (daily)
Keane


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:29 pm 
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see and that is my problem, I need 156mm rods for the 2.1 but they dont make them in a 21mm wrist pin, so its either bore the piston pin (just told why not too) or buy a custom set from R&R ($940 no F*****G way!)so this G4CS is getting dissasembled and block stored for a more pocket filled day when i can build a reliable and correctly built 2.1 DeStroker. the last two owners ran this engine the way it was and immediately sold it. the original builder (Mr. X) i cant find and probably was the idiot that couldnt find the problem and sold it to them. soooooo then theres me :rolleyes: the smart one apperantly

now... 8) my old 2.0 got dropped at the machine shop today for a magna flux, clean and an inspect of the corrosion on the cylinder walls to see if a hone will take it out or we need to bore. everything from the G4CS is getting swapped over (except the pistons obviously :-? ) and I will order pistons sized based on their recomendation. this needs to be a quick but strong build so ARP Mains and kiggly main girdle will be ordered along with a line hone to be safe.

thanks for the clarification on the pistons pin info, i really didnt know, guess they will be for sale with a worthless to me set of brand new $120 rings ](*,)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:16 pm 
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You should really just keep the 2.0L in there anyway, because all that extra torque isn't going to do you a lot of good in a FWD car, and you'll just destroy trannies that much faster...

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91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:43 pm 
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Quote:
You should really just keep the 2.0L in there anyway, because all that extra torque isn't going to do you a lot of good in a FWD car, and you'll just destroy trannies that much faster...
yeah i understand that, it was just a setup that was available for cheap that I jumped on. it will be being built slowly with a full top end and trans for track use in the Evo 3.

_________________
95 Mirage S Sedan- Evo III Project {In Process}
91 Talon TSi AWD- SOLD
91 Mirage 4dr 4G63T -Daily
2016 Ford Edge Titanium -2L.0T AWD Wife
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:53 pm 
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Quote:
yeah i understand that, it was just a setup that was available for cheap that I jumped on. it will be being built slowly with a full top end and trans for track use in the Evo 3.
That will be better. In general, I'm just not a fan of stroker motors, for the reasons listed in the DSMTuners link

_________________
91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

http://www.facebook.com/captaintonus


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Quote:
Quote:
yeah i understand that, it was just a setup that was available for cheap that I jumped on. it will be being built slowly with a full top end and trans for track use in the Evo 3.
That will be better. In general, I'm just not a fan of stroker motors, for the reasons listed in the DSMTuners link
But the 2.1 destroker is a beast. Look at that torque and power curve all the way to 9500rpm. Crazy stuff

_________________
95 Mirage S Sedan- Evo III Project {In Process}
91 Talon TSi AWD- SOLD
91 Mirage 4dr 4G63T -Daily
2016 Ford Edge Titanium -2L.0T AWD Wife
facebook.com/modicausmc


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Quote:
But the 2.1 destroker is a beast. Look at that torque and power curve all the way to 9500rpm. Crazy stuff
Yes. If I ever built a crazy engine, it would probably be a 2.1 de-stroker with aluminum rods and high compression. The problem with all that high-revvy goodness is we don't have transmissions that like shifting at crazy high RPM's like that (unless auto), and you have to do crazy stuff with the valvetrain to go past 9,500rpm or so. It's not really worth it for the amount of money you'd have to spend, when a properly-built 2.0L can pretty much get the same job done

_________________
91 GSX - 511fwhp and 352 lb/ft 25psi 110 octane, 7.68 @ 95.9mph 1/8th 21psi 91 octane, 11.93 @ 112.9mph, 117.7mph best trap speed, 20psi 91 octane
98 Volvo S70 T5 - DD

http://www.facebook.com/captaintonus


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