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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 5:47 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
So, here is what I have just acquired on loan and have installed: (Thanks to drcolt2000) 8)
Stock 4g61t MAF
Stock 4g61t ECU
Stock 4g61t Injectors

The only things that would not be stock, are the turbo (14b) and the cams (both 90 DSM Turbo from what I was told). The car now idles like a lopey big cam beast, but sounds like a sputter fest out the tail pipe. Car has a misfire at 1500 RPM @ no load, or a bumbling in the intake. It doesn't sound as healthy as the 4g63T stuff that was installed before. I'm confused to say the least, that the cams would make the car idle like crap and at 800ish RPM too. Would not the stock computer and components be setup for exactly the same TPS and ISC settings? The engine seems much better when you partly cover the honeycomb mesh on the unmetered air horns, and get the idle to rise and smooth out as the ECU adjusts for this change. There just seems no way to see the car passing the way it is spitting out the tailpipe at idle now; any suggestions from people? The car idled like a charm before, and had excellent throttle response. I have good response now but idle is not breathing well - ECU must not like my cams at idle (low vacuum).
I have not driven the car since the changes were made, my temp expired, but it had idled for some 20 minutes.

I am -*- this close to asking for some 4g61t CAMS to purchase to finish off this experiment. At least we can see the differences that are made. *shrug*

*edit* Only 1 90 DSM exhaust cam installed.


Last edited by Flying Eagle on Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 8:48 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 9:31 pm
Posts: 421
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Quote:

I am -*- this close to asking for some 4g61t CAMS *

I've got some stock cams you can borrow, just say the word.

_________________
'89 Plymouth 200GT 4g61t , evo316g, fmic, 1g cams, cyclone intake, 1g throttle body, 2.5 hard pipes, 190 walboro, 650's, 2g o2, 2g ex mani,3" mandrel, ACT 2100, Fidenza flywheel, Unorthodox underdrive pulley, SBR lsd, , AEM wideband, tuned by maf-t, 2" drop, gr-2's, brembo
cross-drilled, metal masters, 205-50 Falken Azenis, etc., 280 whp @ 256 tq


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:30 am 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Well, that sounds dandy nodents! I'll give you a call soon, and we'll work out the details on getting closer enough to do a drop/pickup.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 7:06 am 
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Some call me a god

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
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Location: Toronto Canada
Tim, have you recently checked your cam timing?
I dont know if having just replaced stock cams to tel stock cams would make it run that lumpy.

Check to see if the belt jumped a tooth.

(it has happened with my friends talon)

Just a thought.

_________________
DRCOLT
1989 3g Colt GT turbo w/4g63t
1988 2g Colt sedan turbo w/4g63t +++++


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:46 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Well, what are the odds that the motor would have jumped a tooth from the time that I turned it off (with the Eprom, 2gMAS etc connected), and then connected the 4g61t stuff. It ran perfectly before the swap for a modified cam car. I'll pull off the cover tonight/tomorrow to see what I'm looking at. Good call, it had come to mind but I was too lazy to think about it more than that. :oops:


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PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2006 7:07 pm 
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Okay, I put in 1 stock exhaust cam thanks to nodents (lifesaver!). Adjusted the IPS as it was rusted on the contact, and dialed it in till my test light lit up with contact confirm at idle. Readjusted base timing (connector grounded), and set the BISS screw to maintain an idle of 750 RPM with all accessories off and HOT idle.

Engine idles much smoother, pulls right near 15 in/Hg vacuum at idle. My next question is this:

Would I see more vacuum (good thing?) if I removed the intercooler exhaust manifold cross-over pipe, and run the turbo air outlet right to the TB, thus bypassing the intercooler entirely? I would like to see vacuum near stock levels to keep things happy.

Engine seems dialed in now, but I want that final tweak to cover my butt if need be.


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2006 3:40 pm 
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Car went to the puffer today, as the machine I would have used, had problems the tech had yet to fix for over a week.
Pulled two sniff tests today and these are the results with relevant information included:

First test - car was driven 15 km's one way and rolled onto the machine a few minutes later. No boost, all stock parts installed minus the 14b and corresponding 02 housing. 2nd gear pull.

40km/h
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--68------94 FAIL
CO%-----0.38----0.62 FAIL
NO ppm--0789---1351 FAIL
RPM 2945 VALID
Dilution 14.8 VALID

Curb idle
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--200------159 PASS
CO%-----1.0-------0.23 PASS
- NO ppm not tested at idle
RPM 1317 VALID (was actually at 745 RPM +-)
Dilution 11.9 VALID

Second test - Car had rolled the first test and we decided to duplicate the lower RPM of the other tests I had checked elsewhere. Heat was on in the car on the second test too. 3rd gear pull.

40km/h
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--68------131 FAIL
CO%-----0.38----0.58 FAIL
NO ppm--0789---1612 FAIL
RPM 1992 VALID
Dilution 14.4 VALID

Curb idle
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--200------185 PASS
CO%-----1.0-------0.08 PASS
- NO ppm not tested at idle
RPM 1387 VALID (was actually at 740 RPM +-)
Dilution 12.4 VALID


So, it would seem that converting everything back to stock has reduced my pollutants at idle for HC and CO%, even more so when the catalytic gets warmed up again. My only problem now would seem to indicate 02 sensor issues and catalytic problems. The catalyst is aftermarket and therefore as I'm told doesn't change much compared to stock components. Where do you find a 2.5" flanged end to end catalytic in good shape, that may fit directly. :lol: The oxygen sensor was with the 02 housing when I got the car, but I have yet to log any values period and determine what the sensor is doing, if much in the way of what it is supposed to. So, off to hunt for a catalytic to fit directly on, and toss in an 02 sensor. Anyone have any good cheap suppliers online from Canada?

Hindsight after passing the E-test at the end of the thread, you can see that the dying catalytic was actually cooling down from the road warm-up, and it shows that by cooling down, it was less effective for each test consecutively. 8)


Last edited by Flying Eagle on Tue Apr 17, 2007 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 12:09 am 
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Some call me a god

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Toronto Canada
uhm, it seems like a lot of work to make your car pass emissions.
Isnt there a shop that can do it under the table for "cash"

There are guys around here that can do it for $150-$200. But they have to see that your car at least did indeed go on a machine once legit.

I havent swapped anything back to stock on mine, and its passed the e-test. This year i have to go again, we'll see if it passes this time around.
Mind you its been four years since i had mine e-tested.
When it came time to buy a sticker for the plates last year, the lady at the mto office suggested to buy a new plate and sticker. Somehow, the system didn't recognize that my car needed to be e-tested. I got off on that one, but this year i have to test. If it doesnt pass, im going under the table.


Tim, have you checked to see the o2 sensor readings? Is it flipping normally, or is it "lazy"? My mechanic calls it that.

Its hard to say, seeing as we can only guess from what you are writing to us on the internet.

Could your knock sensor be doing something retarded cauzing timing to retard?
Spark plugs?

ttyl.

_________________
DRCOLT
1989 3g Colt GT turbo w/4g63t
1988 2g Colt sedan turbo w/4g63t +++++


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2006 7:03 am 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
New NGK BPR7es? plugs and NGK wires (Blue), have cleaned things up a little and my idle now purrs more like a kitten like it should. Haven't got the datalogger cable to work yet with my palm setup. I should just cave and get another cable, it should have worked but the guy had the PC setup sent to me. I had to chop out soe hardened silicone inside the connector area and resolder the resistor setup. :-? I cannot get the Palm to link to the car no matter what I do, using 2 programs I have U/L'd onto the palm.

Places that do this just for cash may exist but it would be hard to pass with a catalytic that is probably just saying hello to the exhaust going by - no handshake. For the money to pass, I may as well get rid of my non-functioning parts and swap them out. This is the best way to shake down the car for the next time I have to "worry" about this stuff for E-test. If my car puffs much better the next time due to my cleanup procedures, then maybe it will pass with the chipped ECU and bigger injectors? That would make me very happy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:14 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
New NTK 02 Sensor (universal 4 wire) to Replace the universal Ford model sitting in there when I got the car(?).
New Universal 3 way Catalytic converter (w/oxygen tube provision unused).
Muffler welded at the inlet where it had cracked.
Car purrs so much better now and is much quieter. I do not smell fuel anymore upon startup, and the exhaust barely has any smell anymore!!! Excellent. Tomorrow or Saturday, I will put the car back on the rollers and get it to pass. I will post the final numbers to show everyone as well, it is the least I can do considering the length of this long winded thread. :P Wish me luck!

P.S. I took the car for a 1.5 hour drive to help season the catalytic elements before putting it on the sniffer. I am told that it can take a while for the catalytic monolith to get to it's best efficiency.


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PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2006 9:20 pm 
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Location: Brantford,Ontario,Canada
hey tim

If it doesent pass this time around, I suggest using the air tubes. I have use a few of those to get some cars to pass :>. just get a air pump froma a fish tank and hook it up. if you can get someone to turn a blind eye to it :>

Jeff

_________________
'91 colt 200e 4g63 naturally aspirated


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PostPosted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:15 pm 
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First test - Car was driven 10 km's to the dealer I had used for the sniff test last time. Took the car up to 160 KMH, and then brought it down to city speed and drove into their garage. Car sat for 5-10 minutes and then was brought into the bay, let to idle while we set everything up, and ..... this is what we got:

40km/h
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--68------30 PASS
CO%-----0.38----0.02 PASS
NO ppm--789---56 PASS
RPM 2011 VALID
Dilution 15.0 VALID

Curb idle
-----------Limit----Reading
HC ppm--200------47 PASS
CO%-----1.0-------0.00 PASS :o
- NO ppm not tested at idle
RPM 750 VALID
Dilution 15.0 VALID

So, with new ignition wires and spark plugs the test barely changed at the outcome. With a new 2.5" High Flow Universal Magnaflow 3 way catalytic (air tube unused/capped) and NTK 02 sensor, we puffed exactly where the car should be. I think it is safe to say that if I could legally test the car again after reinstalling the 90 DSM exhaust cam, the 2G MAS, 450cc injectors, and the 90 Eprom with DSMChip/keydiver Eprom, I could still pass the smog with flying colors. The car needed to be tweaked due to the fact that these tests were done blind, no input from a datalogger whatsoever! I spent another $800 CDN getting my car transferred over into my name and to pass the puffer test, but it is now on the road - for good.

Anyone in Ontario that purchases a 1989 Dodge/Plymouth Colt Turbo 16V, your car will have $0000 listed for wholesale and $0000 listed for Retail values, so you can write a bill of sale for whatever you want. Write the bill for $1 and you will get charged tax on that (unless they have a base limit I've forgotten - $150?) or write a bill to indicate $2500 and get charged $200CDN, so you can tell your insurance company exactly how much proven value it has. 8) I'm one happy camper today! =D> :wtg:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 10:38 am 
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Some call me a god

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2001 7:00 pm
Posts: 1189
Location: Toronto Canada
Right on dude!!

Glad to hear you're legal!!! jk.

_________________
DRCOLT
1989 3g Colt GT turbo w/4g63t
1988 2g Colt sedan turbo w/4g63t +++++


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2006 11:50 am 
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The Silent Administrator
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Yessir, I got her done! drcolt2000, I'll get your gear back to you as soon as I can find some injector o-rings to pop back on. I pulled out my set and they looked half chewed, your set could have used a little freshening up, but they weren't half as bad as the 450cc setup I had on the car. I'll toss in some new injector O-rings before sending everything back. The car is quite quick now that everything is dialled in, but I'm having some other issues with slow starting, long cranking that have never been there before. :oops: I'll start another thread for that one if it gets any worse. Time to get my datalogger online.


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PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:57 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Fri Aug 09, 2002 9:31 pm
Posts: 421
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Good News!!!!! Glad you finally got 'er to pass, after a lot of hard work and cash. But now you might have to sell and get a four door :wink: .
We'll see if mine will pass next month.

_________________
'89 Plymouth 200GT 4g61t , evo316g, fmic, 1g cams, cyclone intake, 1g throttle body, 2.5 hard pipes, 190 walboro, 650's, 2g o2, 2g ex mani,3" mandrel, ACT 2100, Fidenza flywheel, Unorthodox underdrive pulley, SBR lsd, , AEM wideband, tuned by maf-t, 2" drop, gr-2's, brembo
cross-drilled, metal masters, 205-50 Falken Azenis, etc., 280 whp @ 256 tq


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