4g61t.org

Hi, I'm looking for some advice. A friend gave me an 89 (Oct. 88) Colt GT with a non-turbo 1.5 L engine. Supposedly it had been parked, then wouldn't start a couple of years ago. A mechanic read the computer output and told him it was a timing problem, likely the belt. I replaced the belt, even though the old one hadn't broken and the timing marks all lined up fine with #1@TDC. I then replaced the plugs, plug wires, fuel filter, cap and rotor. The rotor fit loosely in its correct position, aimed at the #1 pole of the cap. I hooked up the gas fill hose, which had been disconnected when someone siphoned the gas out of it years ago, added some fresh gas and cranked it over. Found out the starter was drawing way too many amps, so I replaced it and tried again. The engine wouldn't fire. I then reversed the rotor so that it fit tightly and pointed at the #4 pole instead of the #1 pole and moved the plug wires so I had my correct 1342 firing sequence. The engine fired right up. I adjusted the timing and took it for a couple of laps around the yard. The distributor cap was thumping and the more it ran, the worse it ran and the harder it was to restart. I then parked it overnight and it wouldnt start the next day. I looked in the distributor cap, and it was notched out and full of shavings. I pulled the distributor, thinking the bushings were bad and discovered that the rotor wasn't centered the way I had it. So I got another brand of rotor that fit much better and only went on one way, lined up all my markings and put the distributor back in. I haven't gotten the engine to start since. Coil checks out ok, spark is good in all cylinders (I replaced the plugs since a couple had fuel fouled), timing appears correct, wires all check out good, plugs are getting wet, injectors are spraying. I've tweaked the distributor a tooth this way or that, tried lining up the factory markings, etc. I've turned the engine over by hand with the key on and confirmed the #1 plug sparks at 5 degrees before TDC, but the engine wont fire. The only time I got it to fire again was when I set #1 to TDC, spun the distributor gear 180 degrees back so the rotor pointed at the #4 pole of the distributor cap and reconfigured the wires to the correct firing order. Then it fired but wouldn't start. I've reviewed the factory manuals (thanks) and I'm thinking the sensors in the distributor are bad, or the ECU may be bad? Or maybe its bad gas? If anyone has any ideas, I'd appreciate advice. Also, I'd appreciate confirmation that the #1 cylinder is at the timing belt end of the engine and that the #1 pole of the distributor cap is roughly at the 7 o'clock position, looking towards the front of the car.
Also, should the factory marks on the distributor be lined up before the distributor is inserted, or should they be lined up after the gear has spun and is fully seated? Thanks

Sorry I wrote a book, but I'd also like to add that I've heard clicking noises from inside the dash when cranking it - could that be the relay possibly? I found info on checking it, but I dont want to waste time checking out components that may not cause the nostart condition

What was clicking is called a MPI relay, which means it is going out. Will cause problems for you, if not already. Also, the ECUs in these cars are notorious for having capacitors that leak and ruin the circuit board....causing no start conditions. I had to get another ECU for my colt, as it starts when it wants to, dies when it wants to.....and if I didn't know any better, I would be replacing parts left and right for no reason.

Pull out the ECU as incoltnito stated and then revisit the timing.
The timing I assume is a distributor mounted on the back of the head towards the firewall?
It would appear to be the case, so yes the gears have to be inserted and then has to line up with the cap in #1 position, and with pistons 1+4 at TDC (they are a pair on stroke). #1 position is going to be which ever way you can get it to run right, as going off even one tooth may take you almost past where adjustment of the timing will allow you to bring it back
into spec. There are more manuals and possibly pictures located here:
http://www.geocities.com/berserko_1/c50/ Make sure you have the timing plug grounded when setting the timing so as to not allow the ECU to compensate and subsequently keep the timing roughly the same regardless of what you do physically to the distributor base.

That ECU is almost assuredly on the way out, so pictures would be great.
If the ECU is whack, yes that is the technical term(!), send it to Steve Piette (search his name here) great ECU repair guy with fair pricing or source another used one here as they are plentiful at times.

We'll get this figured out with you.

Thanks for the advice. Here's the computer and it looks like toast to me. I'll follow your advice about finding another or getting it fixed. I also pulled the relay so I can test it as well. Then it's back to the timing, which I think I can get figured out. Hope the picture works -

Do you have an automatic transmission beside that motor? I think you pulled out the Auto TCU and not the ECU which is behind the front passenger lower kickpanel, tucked inside the far edge of the dash. You would have almost 10x more wiring going into the main control unit. That unit looks fine and may never have an issue but it couldn't hurt to change those capacitors when the other unit is removed and sent for service too.

OK, here's the ECU - I don't smell or see anything obvious, other than some of the small chips look partially ripply and shiny, like they have been glazed or had clear glue spilled on them. Its hard to see though, unless they are reflecting light.

Hey, I tested my control relay today and it didn't meet all the specs. Everything checked ok with the manual except the ignition (IG) to ground connection. It read infinity like it should from ground to ignition (IG), but ignition (IG) to ground should have been zero ohms and it was around 1080. Could that account for my no start condition? Now I'm perplexed and waiting for some feedback on the ECU. A new relay is $84, but I can get one for $10 from a 90 Mirage, which also has the ECU in it. I can test the used relay, but could the original one have been damaged by the ECU if the ECU is bad? I'd hate to replace a part and then have it fail again because of another bad component. Thanks for any advice.

Cheapest route is to test the used relay, and make sure that is knocked off the potential list of problems and then venture back to the ECU, which in the end should have the capacitors replaced no matter if you can see them leaking or not. It will save the board and possibly other spark/fuel control related devices the sooner you get to it.

AAAUUUGGGHHHHH!!!!! I put another ECU in the Colt Saturday night. Got it from a member of this forum; it came from a running Colt. Put the distributor back in and it fired right up. Grounded the timing control and timed it. It fired right up Sunday morning with the temperature in the twenties, and I spent all day putting everything back together and cleaning it up. It started and idled fine all day, although when it was cold it was prone to stalling when put into gear. I ran it a few laps around the yard and put together a list of maintenance items and repairs. Then today I went out and it won't start. Just like before, it cranks and has spark, but not so much as a sputter out of it. I'm going back out to pull the plugs to check them, but what could be wrong with this darn thing? What am I missing?

Well I think I figured out the problem. The last things I did in the engine compartment yesterday included vacuuming up cobwebs and debris, and routing the distributor wiring back on the firewall where it belongs. So I started unplugging connections, tugging and jiggling wires and ground connections. And then it fired right up. So i guess I'd better add to my list to clean all the terminals/ground connections in the engine compartment. As for the cold stalling, the idle seems to climb like it should after starting before it drops off, so I'm thinking I'll replace the 1991 air filter, clean the throttle body and idle control, then increase the idle speed to see if that takes care of it. Also I'll change the tranny fluid, since its also probably ancient. Cheers

Help! Seems like I'm loosing ground here. Lost my idle control function after working on the throttle body. After cleaning the throttle body with cleaner and a rag, and changing the air filter, my rpms were way up around 1400 with the engine at normal temerature. I backed the set screw way, way back and tried to bring it down to 800. Grounded the timing, let the ICS move around by turning the key but not starting the engine, etc. Every time the idle would drop, something - the ICS? would kick it back up. I couldn't get it below 1000. After I finally gave up, I discovered I'd lost the ICS step up function. At cold start this a.m., the idle never kicked up. I can see the ICS move after turning the key and after starting, but it seems to retract and drop the idle, not raise it. I've disconnected the battery to reset everything, but how do I get this back to normal? And how do I get the base idle down to 800 to check my timing? I've searched, but I'm not sure what to do next.

Grab the FSM from this link here: www.lilevo.com/mirage/ <- 89 Colt manual

There will be procedures in the maintenance section on how to set the idle properly, so the ECU isn't always compensating with the ISC, and also how the test the ISC to make sure it doesn't have bad coils that could kill the ECU in short order. Once the idle is set, then it should start and idle at 1500 RPM and then come down in 50 RPM increments as it warms up; this part should be very steady, otherwise there are issues to deal with. If the tach is jumpy but the motor is still very smooth and not jerking in reaction to events, and coming down from the high idle, assume the tach is just electrically quirky and consider the process good for now.