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 Post subject: understanding fuel pumps
PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:27 pm
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Location: Las Vegas
ok in my quest for a fuel pump i have seen a lot and now feel i know less than when i started. what should i be looking for. what is the flow rate for the stock pump on the 32, and what is the max i should use. i found one i like its a holly blue pump. looks good comes with reg. has a flow rate of like 130 gph i think. also i found one that looks a lot like it by pro comp, but says it cant be used for injected fuel. so why cant it. does it have some thing to do with free flow rate, or psi, or what. if any one here knows something more about pumps and can point me to the best priced pump i would love it ok. thanks.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:15 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:33 pm
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Location: Edmonton Alberta
Any fuel pump designed for a carbed car is going to have pretty low pressure, as a carb has a resevoir and pumps fuel into the air stream via jets drawing from a fuel bowl in the carb. A fuel pump for an injected system has to keep the pressure higher as the injector only opens for a small amount of time, especially at high rpms, and has to deliver the right amount of fuel in that short time.

My old mustang has a mechanical fuel pump that runs off the cam gear, and I guarantee that it delivers more volume than any 4-banger pump just by fuel comsumption, but the pressure is very low. (6-8 psi)


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 10:25 am 
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Some call me a god
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Location: Cincinnati
I am a big fan of the inline pumps such as the Walbro 190lph inline. I think they are easier to work with than the intank pumps, but you do have to find a good way to consistently feed them from your stock tank or install a fuel cell. You do need an EFI pump and if you plan on making further modifying your setup down the road then you should go ahead and purchase a higher flowing pump. Keep in mind that once you hit a certain flow amount the pump will overrun your stock fuel pressure regulator and you will to upgrade that item. I think the stock FPR can tame a 190lph but has problems with a 255lph. The best thing you can do if you do not find a suitable anwer by asking on forums is to call a reputable shop such as Buschur and ask your question to one of their employees.

As far as the mechanical pump comment; John Shepherd ran a mechanical pump driven off of a cam in his 7 second Talon. Now John was revving to something ridiculous past 10,000 but he was in fact utilizing a mechanical pump.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 2:03 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:02 am
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Location: rockford, IL
^
read the last post. he's a carbed motor. ;)

and i prefer the aeromotive inline pumps myself. very high quality. walbros are nice in tanks though.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:09 pm 
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Location: Cincinnati
I don't see in either of the posts where it is indicated as to whether the OP's engine is carbureted or fuel injected. If his is an original turbo car then it is fuel injected; if it isn't then it is carbureted. I am going to lean to the fact that he has a fuel injected one because he seemed put off by the fact that the pump he likes by pro comp can't be used on an EFI system.

Aeromotive makes great fuel system components and I will be using their -6an dual inlet a1000 FPR so I agree with you on that topic.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:17 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 452
Location: gaithersburg md
its an 86 gts turbo FI colt
get a walboro 255 and ill find a tank as soon as i can


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:51 am 
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Location: Las Vegas
you all rock. i will look at the pumps. the thing is the pro comp pump i was looking at has a max psi of like 16 with a free flow rate of 140 gph. thats very high and will need a new reg, however, for what reason can it not be used with fuel injection. makes no since at all. thats the question. thanks again and i think the cell will be best.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 11:42 am 
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Location: rockford, IL
^
very true. farqy's carb talk through me off. 8)


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:03 pm 
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ya, you hear that farqy, no more carb talk he he he :lol: any way so after putting so much into this thing and with the tank issus i found a way to use a junk yard pump, that is good, and the bottom half of my tank. i was able to get all the rust out of there, but the rest of the tank is rusted all the way through. So i really needed to get the thing started just to run the motor, beacuse well i just rebuilt it, and well if its sitting, its a bad day for me. So any way i can put up to about 2 gallons in the tank and all is well, i have the tank sitting on the floor under the car and it work, BUT NOW!!!!!! i am getting fuel all the way to the fillter, even past (i can tell cuz its got a bit of a leak), however, nothing from the injectors, nothing at all. whats next.... any ideas... thanks again


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 12:02 am 
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Location: Cincinnati
If your tank was rusting then you could have junk clogging your injectors. Best way to tell is to take them off and inspect them and possibly try a different set.

As far as your question as to why that pump will not work with an EFI system: The pump can generate 140gph of volume at 16psi. It cannot handle the work/stress of generating 140 gph at 36psi (approximate base pressure) or possibly 61psi (with 25 pounds of boost). This is because fuel pumps do not have linear performance characteristics. As the demand on the pump increases in terms of required volume, the pressure generated by the pump will decrease accordingly. I found a great chart depicting this for two of the 255lph Walbro inline pumps: http://www.lightningmotorsports.com/ima ... _chart.gif

If you are looking to upgrade your fuel system, which is a great idea if you really want to have good control over how your fuel is being delivered then read this faq page which is for DSM's but the topic information is useful to any vehicle: http://www.stevetek.com/R-FuelSys.html


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2009 11:41 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood

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Location: Las Vegas
Thank you. i found that out the other day, the 36 psi. made a lot of stuff make since. however, your info is wonderful. i could not have asked for better info. thanks sooooo much. oh the reason the injectors were not doing any thing was beacuse they had some hevy corrosion, (< i know thats way off, spelling!). any way i was checking them with an ohm meater and nothing. i cleaned up the contacts and good to go. BUT!!!!! now they are passing fuel, but only like a drop at a time. i checked them out they look fine but still not enough i even swapped them and they are both doing it. i have a feeling i am not getting enough psi. i pulled the return line off the reg and it is dry, with the fuel going in, still no return even with the injectors not flowing. do you guys think that if my temp pump is not running at a high enough psi then the injectors will just drip a little fuel or do you all think there bad injectors. oh and what should the resistance be. i got like 2 ohms, but thats with a crapy anolog meater. thanks again.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 7:41 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 452
Location: gaithersburg md
whats your temp pump?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:39 am 
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Location: Las Vegas
an oe pump out of a 3rd gen csm with the 1.5 i think, well i am not sure what motor it had but it was small and had efi.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:03 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Sounds like your filter is clogged.

Disconnect your filter and run 12 volts to you fuel pump test connector to see what comes out. Oh and use a bucket to catch the fuel of course.

If the 3 gem pump worked you should also be able to use a DSM unit as the 3 gen ppl do that all the time. Here we can't get tanks form the local Pick N Pull. They puncture them to drain all the gas out before the put them in the yard.

It's wierd that your car had a rusty tank and your in LV where its nice and arid?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:53 pm 
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CSM Junkie

Joined: Mon Jan 08, 2007 11:12 pm
Posts: 452
Location: gaithersburg md
if that doesnt work pull the fuel rail off and make sure its all clean and check and make sure your main hose after the pump isnt swollen shut


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