4g61t.org

Specializing in the 3g CSM
It is currently Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:30 pm

All times are UTC-05:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:18 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Hi, I live in Montana, I'm new to Mitsubishi but owned a few 90's Mazda Proteges. I found this beaut on the local craigslist and had to snatch it up.

Image

It's a 91 Plymouth Colt with 193k miles. It's a 1.5 SOHC 4 spd with A/C. Aside from a stereo it seems to have never been modified. The previous owner was still driving it to work, but it has an issue where if you give it any more than exactly the right amount of gas it bogs down. The check engine light is on, so I used the guide at http://lilevo.com/tech/body_tech.html to try get a code, but didn't have any luck. I think I need alligator clips instead of the regular probes for my multimeter.
It's possible the timing is off, and we can assume that the timing belt needs doing anyway. It came with records showing that a new ECU, dist, wires, plugs etc all got replaced only 20k miles ago, so maybe it is a recurring problem. The ECU may be bad again.

I found remanufactured shortblocks for cheap, but not much in complete engine/trans/ecu options. It looks like if I want a motor and trans upgrade I'd better just buy a FWD 2.0l Eclipse and call it a day. This one is close by for example https://www.copart.com/lot/26295727. But then again, it would almost make more financial sense to fix the Eclipse and use the Colt for target practice.
I guess for now I want to get it running right and learn more about my options. It's a second car so I can afford to take my time. I'll get more pictures and update again when I've got some work done.


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:03 pm 
Offline
Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:20 am
Posts: 250
Location: Turlock, California
Welcome to the site.

wow a colt version of my mirage the best way to solve the issue is to try and get the codes: helpful how to video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_XlSC00vMo

My guess is maybe the o2 sensor is going out causing a lean or rich spike, it could also be spark plugs or wires.

Also you want to find a "90-"94 Mitsubishi eclipse/Eagle talon/ Plymouth laser for motors, not the "95-"99 Eclipse/Talons... preferably you'd want a "90-"92 with the stronger 6 bolt motor... and even a non turbo 6 bolt block is a good starting point, you can add forged internals or slowly build it if you need to.

_________________
Abe


Top
   
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:23 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 2028
Location: Tucson Az
Quote:
Welcome to the site.

wow a colt version of my mirage the best way to solve the issue is to try and get the codes: helpful how to video below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_XlSC00vMo

I just did this exact same thing on my van today.. bought a meter from home depot for 13 bucks.. mine is code 41.. inj issue.. good luck with yous... also once u get the code go here to find out what it means..

http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html then click on electrical then on the 5th link down called... Retrieving Diagnostic Error Codes (for the 1g).. and u should be set to go.


Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:12 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Oh thanks for the responses guys, I thought I was subscribed and nobody replied.

-I thought the O2 sensor as well! The insulation on it is jacked for one. I'll pick one up.
-Oh OK I need an old DSM. I just saw a 1g Talon driving today, they're around.
I'd be looking for completely stock, and non turbo is plenty in a 2000lb car. 5 spd and NA 4G61 would be ideal actually
I can get a reman long block shipped to my house stupid cheap ($600) but no idea how you'd go forward with that:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-DODGE-COLT ... BI&vxp=mtr

-watched that video, sure enough he's using alligator clips instead of probes. I was also using a digital voltmeter, I'll pick up an analog one.

Thanks guys!


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 8:34 pm 
Offline
Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:20 am
Posts: 250
Location: Turlock, California
That link for the 1.6 engine looks tempting, but if there is no wire harness and ecu, then you will need to source one, or run an after-market engine management system, thats why so many guys use a 1g dsm parts car, then they can source almost everything you need off of it, or if anything is missing you can likely find it via a dsm part-out, it's kinda hard to find a partout for a colt or mirage turbo, or N/A 1.6, being that they are less common cars.

_________________
Abe


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 10:15 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9232
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Quote:
Oh thanks for the responses guys, I thought I was subscribed and nobody replied.

-I thought the O2 sensor as well! The insulation on it is jacked for one. I'll pick one up.
-Oh OK I need an old DSM. I just saw a 1g Talon driving today, they're around.
I'd be looking for completely stock, and non turbo is plenty in a 2000lb car. 5 spd and NA 4G61 would be ideal actually
I can get a reman long block shipped to my house stupid cheap ($600) but no idea how you'd go forward with that:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1989-DODGE-COLT ... BI&vxp=mtr

-watched that video, sure enough he's using alligator clips instead of probes. I was also using a digital voltmeter, I'll pick up an analog one.

Thanks guys!
What they are selling in your link is a complete motor from Japan, not a rebuilt motor. It will have all stock parts inside. Call them to confirm if a wire harness is included with ECU. You can plug in and run ECMLink on a 4g61t ECU: https://www.ecmtuning.com/wiki/referencepage


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 12:40 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks for the responses, I did actually call that seller to confirm that it's just a bare longblock, no intake or exhaust manifolds or anything. I had confused that ad with others on Ebay; a remanufactured longblock is about the same price. I'll continue looking for a complete 1G DSM, and idly fantasizing about rotary swaps and other nonsense

I failed to find an analog voltmeter in town (we miss you Radio Shack) so a cheap one is on its way Amazon. I picked up a $30 oxygen sensor to slap on soon. In the meantime I got some little things done on the Colt.
Found this random nut on one of the wheel studs. The thread pitch is different so the stud is half screwed.
Image

I was able to get a $3 new lugnut on there with some penetrating oil.
Image

The battery is nearly new but the terminals were loose and the bracket goofed up, so while I had the battery out I removed the nasty battery schmutz that seems to live under all LA batteries.
Image

Was very happy to see a plastic battery tray; this is such a common rust point on cars. Schmutz free:
Image

You can see I derped here and put the starter cable on the wrong side. Happily it didn't really do anything when I tried to start it. Easy fix
Image

I'll do the 02 sensor and read the trouble code soon. I'm busy working on my main car right now, a cherry 94 Roadmaster with an LT1. It's the only car I still have from my 'quiver' photo here in 2015:
Image

It's got several minor oil leaks cooperating together I need to address, it's probably time to sign up for buickforums for when I inevitably get stuck

Thanks guys!


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 5:15 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Okay I got my codes! It's 14 and 21. The coolant temperature sensor and the throttle position sensor. $20 and $187 at AutoZone, respectively. Yikes. I didn't put the oxygen sensor in yet. I've been soaking the old one in PB Blaster whenever I remember to though. The TPS makes sense, since the throttle doesn't really work right. Also it randomly boiled over the other day even though the temp guage was reading normal.

I've got my Buicks engine bay scattered all over the garage, I've got to keep chugging along on that for now


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:09 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:21 pm
Posts: 2028
Location: Tucson Az
pull the t-stat and see if that stops the overheating..



Steve

_________________
Steve 89 colt 2.3 stroker stock top end. evo3@20 psi 13.489@99.30mph 3/10 2012
On drag radials.auto trans.launching @ 5 psi and no traction thru 2nd.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:51 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9232
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Do you have MAP gas handy or an oxy/acetylene torch handy? It is best to put heat to the base where the metal in the manifold receives the 02 sensor, before trying to get it out. Not a good idea to try to get it out cold, especially if it has been in there since it was new.

If you get the base cast metal cherry hot, then allow it to color change back to whatever the color of the manifold currently is, then you should be able to put the appropriate socket on there and get the sensor out. This technique should only be used if you don't plan on re-installing the 02 sensor. Regular propane torches don't pack enough calorie/BTU content to get this hot enough.


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:46 am 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Yes at my work we have a torch. I had the same idea, do anything to keep it from busting off. I will also use an impact gun.

I pulled the thermostat and it was bad, but most importantly the "coolant" was disgusting and there wasn't very much of it. A quick drain and fill and it runs ice cold. Working on this thing after the Buick is very satisfying, it has a reverse flow cooling system that takes hours to bleed all the air out of. I had the Colt going in about 15 minutes.
I went and heading through a oil change and a new air filter on for giggles. I've still only spent about 50 bucks on maintenance. I would hate to spend a hundred and eighty bucks on that sensor.
Hey if my coolant gauge works fine, why am I throwing a code for the coolant temp sensor?


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:25 am 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9232
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
Two separate sensors, one wired up to the dash (for your visual reference), and the other one goes to the computer. I beileve (dont quote me yet) that the single pin sensor is for the dash, and the multipin sensor which uses power/ground/5v reference is the one for the ECU.

Ummmm ... I would not recommend an impact gun. For busting rusty things with large threads, it is usually okay, but a big bar and a quick snap, the sensor should pop loose if the heat/breaking loose conditions were then correct. Just a thought. If the threads loosen off and the sensor moves freely after the first snap, the threads aren't galling and chewing everything as they come out. For anyone else reading this, the aforementioned situation is exactly what we are trying to avoid. Do you have an 02 sensor sized tap handy by your side? I don't mean the thread chaser they sell that only cleans up minimal thread issues (I have yet to have success to write home about with that style), but an actual tap in the exact thread pitch as the sensor base? They are not cheap but you can use it on nearly every 02 sensor you work on or accidentally start to cross thread. Been there and done that many times. This way you know you can start out fresh and the new 02 can come out sometime down the road, if need be.

Side note: Did you flush the heater core with a hose? It is the most usual suspect with goopy coolant, that leads to debris coming loose after swapping in fresh stuff or limited heat transfer ability due to low flow or a complete lack of flow thereof. It is inline with the coolant tubes to the TB, so just checking up to see how it was done. So many idle issues associated with FIAV's and wax pellet stuff when cars have old coolant issues (or stored with water or nothing at all).


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 1:11 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks for the detailed response. I'm at my work now, and luckily forgot the 02 sensor at home anyway. I wrongly assumed that the impact would be somehow gentler. I've replaced one once before, and I used a breaker bar and heat just like you described. I've also broken exhaust manifold bolts off with a bar though.

The shop here at work has pretty much any tool, I'm certain I can find a metric tap that fits.I don't even know what the thread chaser you're describing is actually.

I didn't flush anything, just drained it and filled it. I'm gonna do that again and keep running the heater as many times as it takes until the stuff drains out clean. The thing runs so much better already I almost forgot about the throttle issue driving here. The car's got a lot of potential and I'm enjoying looking for parts for it.
The seats are shot, and after looking for used ones I found out the Corbeau sliding mount is still in production, and I could run a reclining racing seat. Hmm, do they still make aftermarket shifters for the CSM?


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:38 pm 
Offline
The Silent Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9232
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
You can install aftermarket shifters to the car using a combination of parts from either:

4G CSM - mix and match the guts of the two shifters assemblies, but use the 4G shifter arm (the part the knob threads onto)
2G or 1G short shifter assemblies that date back a ways
Tiburon (the whale style car)

The 4G provides a little tilt back, significantly shorter throw and has no issues with boots or reusing shifter knobs as they were identical.
Check out my build thread " SCRAT ", and see what parts I had listed for bushing replacements options using the melded 3g/4g setup.
All the bits can be had from JNZTuning.net, and or can be ordered if you are redoing the outside shifter wear items on the shifter arms on the trans top and the cable ends.
Such a better experience to feel the positive shift and you know that the rubber isn't binding when you shift, therefore more direct, when shifting faster; which I agree is pretty funny when shaving seconds off your drag times with a 4g15 from stop light to stop light, but it helps regardless.

The 02 sensor thread chaser - essentially is a weak sauce version of a tap - IE it doesn't get a close shave just like cutting the threads initially and doesn't fit deep into the peak "V" of the thread grooves? Its hard to do a visual but :

Read a bit through this thread and you will see what is meant by chasing (essentially a slightly skinnier diameter cutting area and less chance of rolling threads to start) and cutting threads right to the roughly original size or not, as is suggested by some of the guys posting.

Thread chaser - what is it? http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/ge ... ap-237679/
Thread chaser - better read with pics [http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/in ... lock.3774/]http://garage.grumpysperformance.com/in ... lock.3774/[/url]

Thread chaser for 02 sensors -
Image
Thread chaser but not instantly obvious the difference between a tap and chaser in this instance http://www.grumpysperformance.com/arpthreadchase.jpg
Thread tap styles for three types of tapping -
Image

Essentially you should see how tall and sharp the peaks are on the "taps" and how short they are on the "chasers".

Restoring cross threaded holes, the most common occurrence when threads are entirely removed due to seizure with corrosion, pretty much requires tapping which is essentially giving you a portion of the thread you do want, and removing the rest as part of the process. This is what we all try to avoid, with a few simple steps in advance.

I use a magnetic induction tool at work for tight confines, and when torches would light up nearby components, etc.

Like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Mini-Ductor ... 1466492882

Works when used like this: Click on the video in this link

I was bored tonight so decided to expand on some useful stuff. :supz:


Top
   
PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:34 pm 
Offline
Restricted Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:30 pm
Posts: 15
Wow man you're a treasure trove of information. Thanks for your time. I'll read that build thread.
That induction tool is crazy. I usually just heat things up until the oil starts smoking. That's the kind of thing we should have but I work at a small town Ski Hill. We've got all kinds of tools because there's all sorts of equipment to maintain, but it's a real tight budget. I'm sure our die and tap kit is from Harbor Freight and some of the parts are goobered but it'll usually get the job done. I just have some basic tools at home and no garage so it's great to be able to use their facility.

The shifter as is with 200,000 miles on it already works fine. It's actually the first cable shifter that I've enjoyed using. But I really like the idea of getting a removable steering wheel hub and pseudo race seat and a nice tight shifter.

I've got some water on the driver side floorboard. I'm thinking it's the windshield. Looking up with a light I don't see where it's coming from underneath.


Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 3 Next

All times are UTC-05:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited