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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 4:35 pm 
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Location: Gatineau, Quebec
The 93/94 model workshop manuals list a Visco LSD option, but it does not seem to have been sold in USA/Canada.

Here's how to install a 1G/2G Talon Visco diff in the wagon.

The Talon (non-Visco) and Expo wagons use the same 3.454 diff. The difference is how the drive shafts are connected. On the Talon, the axle CV carrier clips directly into the diff, with a 3 bolt (1g) or 4 both (2g) flange on the wheel end that connects to the axle stub in the trailing arm.

On the Expo, there are 3 bolt flange/axle stubs that fit into the diff, and the drive shafts connect directly into the wheel hub.

The Visco diff has a single spline on the left (? I forget which) axle output, and a double stepped spline in the right. The double spline connects to the spider gears and also the viscous coupler unit.

So ... what's required is to fit the 3 bolt flange/axle stubs into the Visco diff, right? Almost!

1. The single spline 3 bolt flange/axle stub is about 4mm too long. This is corrected by cutting the spline at the locking circlip groove (with an angle grinder wheel), and then remaking the circlip groove with a thin cutting disk on a Dremel tool.

2. The single spline 3 bolt flange/axle stub will fit the other side of course, but you won't have the Visco operation. Here you need the double spline CV carrier from the Talon drive shaft. The carrier body (that used to contain the CV joint) has to be cut down about 1cm, a flange disk made and professionally welded on, trued up in a lathe, and finally the three drive shaft CV carrier mounting holes drilled.

With some fiddling with Talon bits is would be possible to use 4 bolt flanges and CV carriers, especially if you plan to install a 4G63T to replace the 4G64.

I did this on my 4G Eagle Summit coupe for the AWD conversion.


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PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2014 12:54 pm 
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Location: Chelmsford, MA
Have you looked into using stock 2G LSD axles? Or... if need be, a custom length 2G rear axles ;).

I was also considering bying the stubs from down under, where this was a factory option. But shipping along was around $100-$120 for something that small!

But considering that I am putting low 1.6 60' times, I am not sure if any of this really necessary :).


Last edited by grndsm on Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:23 am 
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Location: Chelmsford, MA
I just compared 2G and van axles, looks like 2G axles are around 1/4" (6mm) too long. They are also ~3mm larger in diameter!

The spindle ends look identical!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:15 am
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Location: San Diego
Would it be possible to disassemble the axles at the CV joints and use the necessary talon/eclipse parts at the diff and the van parts at the hubs?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:45 am
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Location: tampa
Quote:
Would it be possible to disassemble the axles at the CV joints and use the necessary talon/eclipse parts at the diff and the van parts at the hubs?
no that doesnt work. talon axle lengths are all wrong. and there is no room at the swing arm to fit the 3 or 4 bolt talon flanges. this thread should be deleted as even post one is not possible on the vans. he may have done what he describes in another type car. but not on the van. pretty sure the viscous type LSD from the talons wont even fit inside the van carrier.

research I have done on my van indicates. the only combo that works is evo 3 axles with evo 3-9 LSD clutch type diff.
or evo 1-2 axles with evo 8 inner cups. the 2g axles are too long from what I have measured. the clutch type equal length axle setup fits inside the van carrier. the viscous type does not.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:49 pm 
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Location: Lyndhurst,VA
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/car-par ... 952268.htm

Problem solved! Now to get it here? :ANAL:


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 12:37 pm 
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That is only a part of your problem ;). I am talking to a fellow RVR enthusiast in Australia about shipping me some RVR rear end parts.

The problem is that rear end is of 4 bolt/2G variety, so it will not work with Summit axles. Even that 3 bolt flange might look like US spec flange, but it is actually larger! I will post all my findings in the end.

I believe that pumpkin itself is identical to a 2G pumpkin, so you wouldn't need to ship it over.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 1:22 pm 
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the rvr diff is clearly not 2g style. the front mount from summit will not bolt on a 2g case. and there is no 4bolt 2g. and I dont know how aussies would know what US parts are like since none are being sent there. I bet my last dollar this RVR viscous diff is direct drop in for our cars.. the case is clearly the same. worst case the flanges need be modded to fit USA axles. for me this is easy peasy and far better solution than using evo 3 stuff which i have waiting to go in. the evo 3 setup will make serving axles a real pain. I love the inner flange setup. it makes service a breeze.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 2:59 pm 
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Quote:
the rvr diff is clearly not 2g style. the front mount from summit will not bolt on a 2g case. and there is no 4bolt 2g. and I dont know how aussies would know what US parts are like since none are being sent there. I bet my last dollar this RVR viscous diff is direct drop in for our cars.. the case is clearly the same. worst case the flanges need be modded to fit USA axles. for me this is easy peasy and far better solution than using evo 3 stuff which i have waiting to go in. the evo 3 setup will make serving axles a real pain. I love the inner flange setup. it makes service a breeze.
I'm with you on this, be nice if we could get a few sent on a pallet to offset shipping charges for a few of us. I'm game with this plan.

I have found a RVR auto trans and t case stateside, like you told me in another post I need a matching rear because my Van is a 1.8. It desperately needs the swap, she struggles to go up the mountains here in VA.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 5:02 pm 
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There are no "bolts" on 2G rear end, so no, there is not such thing as "4 bolt rear end". But... 4 bolt 1G and 2G rear end use the same size splines that enter the rear diff they are both around 26mm. And RVR also uses 26mm splines.

3 bolt 1G and US Summit/EXPO/Vista uses 24.5mm splines.

If housings are different enough, we should be able to use 2G "guts" inside of Summit rear housing. I actually think that Summit front diff mount is pretty weak, so it might be good to redesign around 2G rear end. And we will have to use a Summit rear diff cover, which is easy enough to swap.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:27 pm 
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Location: tampa
well I already did some pretty accurate measuring. 2g axles are too long to work. but not by much. they may work if you shorten them by eliminating the ring clip section of spline. the axles are around 1/4 too long.

stock spline size on my summit doesnt match anything 1g or 2g. its smaller in diameter. but that is the non-lsd that we dont care about.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 1:57 am 
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The problem with using a modified 2G axle on the van is that install and replacement will be major PITA!

1G and Summit axles are split at the flange because otherwise, you would have to drop a control arm to get to the axle. That means new wheel alignment :(

Are you talking about diff spline? Was it in 24.04-24.96mm range?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:05 pm 
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Location: Chelmsford, MA
Quote:
The 93/94 model workshop manuals list a Visco LSD option, but it does not seem to have been sold in USA/Canada.

Here's how to install a 1G/2G Talon Visco diff in the wagon.

The Talon (non-Visco) and Expo wagons use the same 3.454 diff. The difference is how the drive shafts are connected. On the Talon, the axle CV carrier clips directly into the diff, with a 3 bolt (1g) or 4 both (2g) flange on the wheel end that connects to the axle stub in the trailing arm.

On the Expo, there are 3 bolt flange/axle stubs that fit into the diff, and the drive shafts connect directly into the wheel hub.

The Visco diff has a single spline on the left (? I forget which) axle output, and a double stepped spline in the right. The double spline connects to the spider gears and also the viscous coupler unit.

So ... what's required is to fit the 3 bolt flange/axle stubs into the Visco diff, right? Almost!

1. The single spline 3 bolt flange/axle stub is about 4mm too long. This is corrected by cutting the spline at the locking circlip groove (with an angle grinder wheel), and then remaking the circlip groove with a thin cutting disk on a Dremel tool.

2. The single spline 3 bolt flange/axle stub will fit the other side of course, but you won't have the Visco operation. Here you need the double spline CV carrier from the Talon drive shaft. The carrier body (that used to contain the CV joint) has to be cut down about 1cm, a flange disk made and professionally welded on, trued up in a lathe, and finally the three drive shaft CV carrier mounting holes drilled.

With some fiddling with Talon bits is would be possible to use 4 bolt flanges and CV carriers, especially if you plan to install a 4G63T to replace the 4G64.

I did this on my 4G Eagle Summit coupe for the AWD conversion.
So, I have tried to follow this write up along with your webpage (http://www.lancerproject.ca/lancerproject_2.htm) and I am still lost :(

What differential cups are you using in this photo to interact with LSD?

Image

Thanks!


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