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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:31 am 
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abnormal

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 436
Location: New port richey/tampa,florida
swap will be complete short of a motor and tranny in the next week or so, and i'll have motor and tranny within the next month...i hope anyways


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 8:30 am 
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Location: Orlando FL
what size are those wheels?

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Clay M.
1989 4G63T Colt GT AWD - 10.2@146


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:57 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:
what size are those wheels?
15 x 6.5, tires are 205/50/15

_________________
94 Eagle Summit DL coupe
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan (project green turd)
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 2:33 pm 
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Spends Too Much Time Under The Hood
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Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2002 6:16 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
Quote:
Quote:
what size are those wheels?
15 x 6.5, tires are 205/50/15
Do they rub?

Great job with those brakes, now i know what to do as my first mod. Thanks a lot! :)

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2000. Hyundai Sonata EF 2.0 (Hyundai version of 4G63 and F5M22)
1991. Mitsubishi Lancer C62 1.5 (4G15, F5M21)


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 3:05 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
what size are those wheels?
15 x 6.5, tires are 205/50/15
Do they rub?

Great job with those brakes, now i know what to do as my first mod. Thanks a lot! :)
Nope, no rubbing. Thanks to everyone for their comments on the brakes!

_________________
94 Eagle Summit DL coupe
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan (project green turd)
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:54 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2003 1:54 pm
Posts: 691
Location: Watertown, WI
Chris,
Nice work on the hubs and brakes! How do they feel when driving? Do the pads contact the rotors evenly? If so, its probably safe to say that we have a new option for brake upgrades. (summit needs front brakes soon...getting ideas)
Either way, good to see somebody out there paving new paths. :D

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91 Colt GL "dandelion demon"
92 Talon TSi AWD - winter beater


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:14 pm 
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Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:
Chris,
Nice work on the hubs and brakes! How do they feel when driving? Do the pads contact the rotors evenly? If so, its probably safe to say that we have a new option for brake upgrades. (summit needs front brakes soon...getting ideas)
Either way, good to see somebody out there paving new paths. :D
Paul, it drove from my shop to my carport (about 50 feet) fine, lol. I only have one side done at this time. Looks like everything is making contact as it should. Now I have to get motivated enough to do the other side tomorrow after class. I also plan on taking some pics along the way for others who would like to do the upgrade or just understand the captive rotor setup in general.

I have an Elantra brake booster/master cylinder and prop. valve ready to go in before I convert the rears to discs. I also need to get you some measurements on that stub axle.

Again thanks for the heads up on pressing everything apart. Made everything go very smooth.

_________________
94 Eagle Summit DL coupe
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan (project green turd)
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 9:22 pm 
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Some call me a god
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:05 am
Posts: 1332
Location: Juneau, A K
Quote:
I also plan on taking some pics along the way for others who would like to do the upgrade or just understand the captive rotor setup in general.
Mirageman, this would be an awesome help, as me and my dad just started to check out my brakes yesterday and noticed it wasnt like all his corollas hes had. Captive rotor is new to us as well, and since my front-right rotor is warped, I had planned on removing the (front and rear) discs and calipers from my Summit ES as a 'big brake' kit. Any body with advice or pics, post up.

_________________
90 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Wrecked
92 Eagle Summit ES 1.6 DOHC n/a - Parts
92 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Sold
94 Talon TSi AWD Auto - Sold
90 Laser RS FWD 4G63T - Hit and totalled

2000 Pontiac Trans Am LS1 Auto // 2006 Honda CRV K24 5MT


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2006 11:22 pm 
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CSM Junkie
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Posts: 691
Location: Watertown, WI
Glad to hear all went smoothly and they seem to be contacting well. Time to find some 1g front brackets for the summit!


James, heres an overview of the operation ahead:

Remove spindles from car.

Use a deep socket and press to push out center hub w/rotor assy from the backside of the hub. I have yet to do this without bending the piss out of the dust shields for some reason, Im sure if you use some care you can prevent this. Fortunately they are only $5ea NEW from the dealer.

pull seals and bearings, throw those greasy f'ers in the trash

wipe out all grease remaining with lots of paper towels, brakleen, etc.

You are left with a spindle that has outer bearing races in it. Take a chisel, 3lb hammer, and find the 4 relief areas between the bearings. Use chisel and hammer to remove them evenly. This is a press fit, and will not move if the race is cocked in there. Keep this in mind while driving them out.

Keep a few old outer races to use as your 'tool' while you press in the new bearing races, pack your new bearings full of grease and insert, put in the seals. Take your rotor off the hub (4 bolts w/nuts and lockwashers) and use a bearing separator to pull the top bearing off the hub. Press the new one on there the best you can, put the dust shield over the spindle if you have it still, and press the hub back into the bearings on the hub.

reassemble hubs onto car.

Its really not as hard as it may sound, but its a dirty job. Lots of use here have done it, not the end of the world.
Keep lots of paper towel on hand, make sure you have a press and random stuff around to 'fixture' it, (wood, metal hunks, sockets) and a bearing separator to pull the bearing off the hub. Count on an afternoon of downtime if youre well concentrated on getting it done and have accounted for all parts needed to do the job.

_________________
91 Colt GL "dandelion demon"
92 Talon TSi AWD - winter beater


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:16 am 
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abnormal

Joined: Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:34 pm
Posts: 436
Location: New port richey/tampa,florida
YET ANOTHER SAVIOR
Quote:
Glad to hear all went smoothly and they seem to be contacting well. Time to find some 1g front brackets for the summit!


James, heres an overview of the operation ahead:

Remove spindles from car.

Use a deep socket and press to push out center hub w/rotor assy from the backside of the hub. I have yet to do this without bending the piss out of the dust shields for some reason, Im sure if you use some care you can prevent this. Fortunately they are only $5ea NEW from the dealer.

pull seals and bearings, throw those greasy f'ers in the trash

wipe out all grease remaining with lots of paper towels, brakleen, etc.

You are left with a spindle that has outer bearing races in it. Take a chisel, 3lb hammer, and find the 4 relief areas between the bearings. Use chisel and hammer to remove them evenly. This is a press fit, and will not move if the race is cocked in there. Keep this in mind while driving them out.

Keep a few old outer races to use as your 'tool' while you press in the new bearing races, pack your new bearings full of grease and insert, put in the seals. Take your rotor off the hub (4 bolts w/nuts and lockwashers) and use a bearing separator to pull the top bearing off the hub. Press the new one on there the best you can, put the dust shield over the spindle if you have it still, and press the hub back into the bearings on the hub.

reassemble hubs onto car.

Its really not as hard as it may sound, but its a dirty job. Lots of use here have done it, not the end of the world.
Keep lots of paper towel on hand, make sure you have a press and random stuff around to 'fixture' it, (wood, metal hunks, sockets) and a bearing separator to pull the bearing off the hub. Count on an afternoon of downtime if youre well concentrated on getting it done and have accounted for all parts needed to do the job.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:35 am 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7472
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
Quote:
Glad to hear all went smoothly and they seem to be contacting well. Time to find some 1g front brackets for the summit!


James, heres an overview of the operation ahead:

Remove spindles from car.

Use a deep socket and press to push out center hub w/rotor assy from the backside of the hub. I have yet to do this without bending the piss out of the dust shields for some reason, Im sure if you use some care you can prevent this. Fortunately they are only $5ea NEW from the dealer.

pull seals and bearings, throw those greasy f'ers in the trash

wipe out all grease remaining with lots of paper towels, brakleen, etc.

You are left with a spindle that has outer bearing races in it. Take a chisel, 3lb hammer, and find the 4 relief areas between the bearings. Use chisel and hammer to remove them evenly. This is a press fit, and will not move if the race is cocked in there. Keep this in mind while driving them out.

Keep a few old outer races to use as your 'tool' while you press in the new bearing races, pack your new bearings full of grease and insert, put in the seals. Take your rotor off the hub (4 bolts w/nuts and lockwashers) and use a bearing separator to pull the top bearing off the hub. Press the new one on there the best you can, put the dust shield over the spindle if you have it still, and press the hub back into the bearings on the hub.

reassemble hubs onto car.

Its really not as hard as it may sound, but its a dirty job. Lots of use here have done it, not the end of the world.
Keep lots of paper towel on hand, make sure you have a press and random stuff around to 'fixture' it, (wood, metal hunks, sockets) and a bearing separator to pull the bearing off the hub. Count on an afternoon of downtime if youre well concentrated on getting it done and have accounted for all parts needed to do the job.
The small tin dust shield that Paul is talking about really can't be reused anyway on this upgrade because you will be going to a larger rotor. I thought about trying to fit the one from the Laser but decided to just leave it off all together.

I also didn't have a bearing seperator (even though they are only about $10 from Harbor Freight) so I took my dremel with the black cutoff wheel and cut the outer bearing ring off. Seperated it from the rest of the bearing and took all the little rollers out, cleaned it up and then VERY CAREFULLY cut through the inner bearing sleeve without contacting the stub axle itself. What this does is it weakens the bearing and it is no longer pressed on anymore and it can be twisted off. This would be much faster with the bearing seperator still.

I'm sure all this still sounds very confusing but like Paul said, once you actually get in there and start taking stuff apart it will become more clear what needs to be done.

_________________
94 Eagle Summit DL coupe
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan (project green turd)
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 12:31 am 
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Some call me a god
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:05 am
Posts: 1332
Location: Juneau, A K
I just got off the phone with my stepdad, who's a mechanic, and he was talking about the Summit ES brakes not being able to work on my 91 Summit. He figures that it would be best to remove the entire front braking system from the ES (calipers, rotors, all brackets and hardware etc) and swap it over to mine. Now, what's the difference between brake spindles and brake hubs? He's really pissing me off, because he keeps saying that "You don't know for sure that it will work on another Eagle Summit." Plus the Summit ES has the 4g61, so it has different axles.

I'm all confused on my brake knowledge. If somebody (Paul? 89Mirageman?) could come forth with what exactly I need to do (not 'instructions', just tell me what it entails) to take these better brakes off this Summit ES, and put them on my car. My stepdad was also talking about proportioning valves not working, and master cylinders not being able to handle the slightly bigger brakes in the front. I talked to Socrateez about his rear disc swap, and that seems like it makes more sense then this front brake nonsense does. Can anybody help a confused young man?

Sorry about the book.

_________________
90 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Wrecked
92 Eagle Summit ES 1.6 DOHC n/a - Parts
92 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Sold
94 Talon TSi AWD Auto - Sold
90 Laser RS FWD 4G63T - Hit and totalled

2000 Pontiac Trans Am LS1 Auto // 2006 Honda CRV K24 5MT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:39 am 
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 11:15 pm
Posts: 7472
Location: Stantonsburg, NC
If your parts car has the larger brakes already you are lucky. You can just pull the wheel off, disconnect the brake line, pop the tie-rod end loose and take out the lower spindle nut and swap the entire spindle over to your summit. This way you don't have to go through the hassle of pressing bearings and such. I would go and buy some sort of puller though for the ball joints. I used a pickle fork (the thing you hit with a hammer) and it tore my perfectly good boots so then I had to replace them.

It really isn't that difficult at all. Just jack it up and start pulling the stuff off that I listed. If you get in a bind I'll be happy to help.

As for the Master cylinder, I belive you can get away with your stock stuff for the front brakes. Once you swap the rears to discs you'll have to swap the master cylinder and prop. valve from your parts car also.

Forgot something, the large nut on the end of the axle has to come off also, 32mm socket I believe.

_________________
94 Eagle Summit DL coupe
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan
98 Mitsubishi Mirage DE sedan (project green turd)
15 Mitsubishi Mirage ES hatch


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:38 am 
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Some call me a god
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Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:05 am
Posts: 1332
Location: Juneau, A K
Thanks a bunch, it's cristal clear now.

_________________
90 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Wrecked
92 Eagle Summit ES 1.6 DOHC n/a - Parts
92 Eagle Summit 1.5 - Sold
94 Talon TSi AWD Auto - Sold
90 Laser RS FWD 4G63T - Hit and totalled

2000 Pontiac Trans Am LS1 Auto // 2006 Honda CRV K24 5MT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 4:32 pm 
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The Silent Administrator
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 3:32 pm
Posts: 9289
Location: Ottawa, ON, Canada
.... DO NOT FORGET that if you HAD drums, you MUST remove the residual valve that keeps them applied momentarily after you remove your foot from the brakes. Discs do not use a residual valve, and that makes them just alittle snappier in and around fast moving traffic.

The steering knuckle (the big cast iron part that the struts bolt to, the tie rod goes into, and the lower ball joint all attach to, can be swapped from a bigger disc setup complete, STRAIGHT onto your small 1.5L setup. They all use the same knuckle, it is the brackets that hold the calipers that get iffy between small unvented rotor, and the slightly larger vented rotor that the 89-90? sedans sported; this is not to say they are nearly as big as the turbo brakes of which you cannot use directly. Hubs are the same, so the outer axle joint will always bolt up, it is just the transmission side that must match up in length and splines to the appropriate transmission. Is this helping some too? :twisted:
Quote:
From the archives -
Chart of Prop Valve Split Points and Decompression Ratios:
89-92 CMS All (1.5/1/6/Turbo)/455PSI/0.3
Therefore all CSM's from small to big, have the same proportioning valve.
Quote:
From the archives -
Swapping Brake boosters/MC from other models:
Elantra was my next best choice 4:1 same as a turbo colt. Almost identical M/C to a tubo colt only the Elantra has a line shooting from the top at the front if you take the line with the MC then your fine. Now that I had the MC/Booster I thought it was a plug in ad go well it was sort of. It bolted in fine heres were the problems began. I notice the brake pedal even at the top of its stroke had barely any clearence to the floor you could only push the brakes 1.5" until it was laying on the floor. I thought I had screwed up again I did but it wan'y anything terminal on the back of the colt brake booster there was about a .5" of a spacer on the Elantra it has a spacer too but it was about 1.25" and it move the booster so far forward it have a really low pedal. I swapped spacer betwen the colt and Elantra Booster and the pedal came back to the right place things were good. The only other mod needed for this is to hack the wiring harness to accept the fluid level sensor for the elantra M/C infortunately you cannot swap bottle due to design differences in the M/C other than what I have mentioned the swap was a success hopefully it will be worth while after I get my project finished.
Another "for sure" thing you can work with if you are going big. The aforementioned items will all help you to balance the system the way it was designed from the factory - don't mess with this unless you want to scare yourself and possibly hurt people. If you have an accident and it comes to disecting the car (in really bad cases), you don't want them to know that anything was anything other than the way it was designed even if it says Hyundai on it.


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